Navigating Uncertainty in the Boardroom

Mo: [00:00:00] Welcome to today's episode of People and Strategy. I'm your host, Mo Fathelbab, president of International Facilitators Organization, People and Strategy is a podcast from the SHRM Executive Network, the premier network of executives in the field of human resources. Each week we bring you in-depth conversations with the country's top HR executives and thought leaders for today's conversation.

I'm excited to be joined by Dan Wolf, CEO of the Dewar Sloan Management Consulting firm, and the new editor of the Director's Roundtable in SHRM's, People and Strategy Journal. The Director's Roundtable is a regular column in the magazine that features a conversation with corporate board directors about workplace issues.

Welcome, Dan.

Dan Wolf: Thank you, Mo.

Mo: Uh, so Dan as the new editor of the Director's Round table. Uh, let's let our audience get to know you a little bit better. What's been the thread along your [00:01:00] career journey that led you to the boardroom relations?

Dan Wolf: Well, thanks, uh, Mo. It is not a long and winding road. Uh, I started my corporate career in business development, product development, commercial development.

And so I had, uh, internally with two Fortune 500 companies, regular exposure on things that would drive growth, performance, and change. Profitable growth was obviously an issue at the time, sustainable growth, uh, resource efficient growth. And so this has always been. Uh, a main focus for me. Um, my strategy background, uh, was, uh, ALS also included m and a work, organic development work across divisions, and that led me to see the decision making structures of not only boards, but also informal influence channel.

And, uh, what, what we would've called pre-board at the time, meaning that before you get ready to speak to the board about this capital investment or your new [00:02:00] venture idea, you, uh, you better vet your ideas. And so governance to me has always been about, uh, pre-planning, decision-making, risk management and, and problem solving.

It's, uh, it's a continuous cycle.

Mo: Thank you for that. So, uh, Dan, when, when we think about, uh, some of the trends that you're seeing in 2026 when it comes to board relations, what might be three of those trends that you're seeing?

Dan Wolf: I think, uh, the big one on everybody's list would be general uncertainty and the palpitations that go with that.

I'm not sure that there's ever been grand certainty. In business, in any business. Uh, I've worked in several industries where uncertainty is the pace of the day. It's, it's part of the DNA. And I think today with geopolitical events, economic events changes in, in, uh, political, uh, relationships that, uh, that level of economic, technical and operating uncertainty is as, as high as ever.

I think, uh, number two, [00:03:00] um, since you asked would be the general. Area of risk management, high risk, low risk, internal risk, external risk, uh, new risk from, uh, you know, ass sailing parties, et cetera, et cetera. And then the third issue would be, uh, this whole issue of why boards, uh. Seek the balance between consensus and argument.

Now, I use argument in a, in a positive term, and tone. I don't mean that's a fist fight in the boardroom. I mean, this is the, this is the ethical and the logical argumentation of good men and women, uh, working through issues in trying to find both the common ground and the, and the challenges and risks that goes with decision making.

Mo: We'll be back after this message.

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Mo: So I'm curious, having been involved with, uh. Companies that have had more of a propensity to have uncertainty as [00:05:00] part of their day to day, what can we learn from those companies?

Dan Wolf: I think you can learn, uh, two things. Uh, those companies that are used to risk, that risk, uh, elevates their behavior and their thinking, their thinking fast and slow, as certain economic philosophers would call it, are, are better at anticipating.

They're more curious about what could come down the road and what that means and the consequences and, and perhaps how to prevent or mitigate, or intercept or manage or, uh, basically respond to risk in a positive way. I think also, um, the, the anticipation leads to more conversation about meaning and sense making.

Now that may seem a bit philosophical, but meaning making at the board level is important because we have the advantage of board people coming from different perspectives, different backgrounds, different lived experiences, and that puts a, uh, that, that [00:06:00] puts a different shine on the opportunity to listen to different viewpoints and respond to them.

Sometimes that, uh, sometimes that changes minds. Sometimes it's ways, opinions, sometimes it causes people to double down on their, on their positions and arguments. I think the, uh, the third thing we see is there's, uh, there's a penant for learning. In, in organizations that are more geared to thinking about the future, thinking about their response events and, and conditions that change or put their behavior and their choices and decisions in, um, in time series per se perspective.

Mo: And when you talk about arguments at board meetings, you know, often, um, I see where board meetings people are less likely to argue. I'm wondering your opinion as to the importance of arguing and, and having some discourse versus, uh, rubber stamping as it were.

Dan Wolf: I think this is really a big deal. When nobody says anything in [00:07:00] a conversation, then they either all agree or they think they all agree, or they think it's not the time to disagree.

And, uh, I, I think we saw more of that 10, 15, 20 years ago than we're seeing it today. My sense is that in more boardrooms than not, uh, these arguments are not disagreements. They're, they're searches for perspective, they're searches for options. They're searches for responses to those options and, and adaptation.

So if I haven't heard a point of view before, or if somebody's coming at something from a different angle or if somebody from a different industry entirely than the one that we're overseeing in governance, I'll want to hear their, their point of view and their logic and their reasoning and their experience and their anxieties.

I want to hear those perspectives because that's one of the reasons I think I'm in the boardroom. I'll also want to give mine. I'll also want to disagree with people that I think are worth disagreeing with to [00:08:00] clarify an issue. I think another issue is, uh, is this, when I wait to respond to some other comment in a boardroom, I personally am always taking things in, but I'm also trying to balance what I think with what somebody else thinks.

Mo: Wonderful. So back to risk management. Uh, one example of a company that recently had to deal with risk management was, uh, a medical technology company called Stryker. Uh, in March they released a statement following a cybersecurity incident. Uh, can you share more about what happened here and why security continues to be a common issue for companies?

Dan Wolf: Well, I think Stryker is a, uh, a poster girl, poster boy example of vulnerability. To the craziest kinds of attacks that we, we can see. That was, that was, uh, a, a combination attack by a, uh, by a hostile party that caused a great [00:09:00] deal of disruption. Um, that was. Not preventable in its current form. And from what I understand from the outside now, this is mostly from published reports, Stryker intercepted that they, uh, they brought in their stakeholders including, uh, law enforcement department, FBI, everybody, and their cousin and their insurance companies, and arrested the risk, reduced the risk, but.

Many, uh, many people were impacted by that. Several days of business were impacted by that. One thing they did do. Uh, and I think what the, uh, what the chair and uh, and CEO of Stryker did that was magnificent, was communicated. Early and often. He communicated virtually every day about status and conditions and what employees ought to do, what customers ought to do, what suppliers ought to do, what partners ought to do.

And I think it, uh, I think it's an abject [00:10:00] lesson and you can be prepared, but you have to respond when you're hit by one of these events.

Mo: Yeah. You know, interestingly, you know, if you go back 20 years, there were case studies where companies were not forthcoming in the press when they made a mistake or when something was compromised.

Do you think they have a choice these days in, in the sense that. Everything has become so transparent. Do they have a choice but to not respond and be open and honest about it?

Dan Wolf: I think, uh, we live in a, in a pretty open and transparent world. I think most boardrooms have fiduciary responsibilities of obedience and confidentiality and loyalty.

Um, I see in some countries, commonwealth countries in particular. Their charters of, uh, fiduciary conduct are, are pretty specifically laid out. Um, and so I, I think the, uh, you know, on the internal front, we're better at this than we have been a long time. Uh, do you [00:11:00] see, you know, a future that still has, uh.

Uh, challenges with stakeholder and, and shareholder distrust. I think that's, I think that's what you see at annual meetings for some companies where there are disruptions in the audience and, and that signals the access that people have to governance in general. You, if you're a shareholder, you can speak up.

You may not amount to much, but you can. And it speaks to transparency.

Mo: Thank you for that. Um, I also wanna highlight what you said earlier about, uh, boards reaching consensus. So in a time of uncertainty, how would you advise board leaders to make, uh, decision making easier? And, uh, is it better to have a wide range of options or a few top options?

Dan Wolf: Consensus may be comfortable. Um. But I would, I would put it out there as easier to, uh, easier to tack all 20 or 25 years ago than it is [00:12:00] today, because I think, uh, Mo, there are so many flying objects politically, technically. Uh, resource wise, socially, market wise, operations wise, that to find the perfect answer to a strategic question or an operating question is, is really tough.

So, in the absence of that perfect consensus, what are we paying attention to?

Mo: Hmm.

Dan Wolf: And if we're paying attention to the right things, we should be able to get to near consensus on most things. Now what happens when we get to near consensus but don't have a hundred percent? You only have so much time to spend in the boardroom.

If people are prepared, if they bring their background material, if they're engaged, if frankly, if they're the right members of the board, in the right company, in the right situation to tap into their talents in board governance, um, this, this is not gonna be much of a problem. Where it is a problem is where there is a new idea.

[00:13:00] There is a difference of opinion on time. This will happen near term or that'll happen long term. We don't have to make worry about it now. Maybe we should worry about it later. Maybe we should reset and redefine the problem. So I'm good for a little friction, not a lot of friction. I'm good for people in a boardroom who can say I disagree, but I'm listening.

Mo: We'll be back after this message.

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Mo: So in 2026, what do you think boards should be paying attention to and uh, what are they often motivated by?

Dan Wolf: Everybody has to focus on taking care of customers, no customers, and you don't have to worry about much else, so you gotta take care of the customers. Natural goal number two is you gotta have economic performance that can sustain the business and reinvest in the business and compete, which takes us to natural goal Number three, competitive advantage or comparative advantage, as an economist might say, if you don't have edge, you better figure out where you're gonna get it.

Or you're not gonna be in business. [00:15:00] And number four, and probably the widest ranging, most philosophical argument of all with these natural goals is corporate stewardship. You know, 20, 25 years ago, pre leann, pre green. The idea probably was don't bury too much in the backyard of your factory that would be bad for the water and the people in your community today.

It's, it's really a combination of social statements and political statements that are consistent and in sync with the core business of the corporation. Now you can argue that, uh, to the left and to the right, but those, those four natural goals better be the anchor points. Of what companies are talking about before the meeting even starts then.

And I think especially for this conversation, uh, about executive relationships, board relationships in general, and, and especially the People and Strategy piece of it, is that we need to be really, really attentive to the strategic [00:16:00] agenda. To the talent sets and platforms that we have to work for and with and to the cultural agenda.

Mo: So talking culture for a minute, um, let's start with just zooming the lens out. Is it the board's responsibility? Is it the CEOs? Is it the CHROs?

Dan Wolf: Yes. Short answer.

Mo: Short answer. Um,

Dan Wolf: in our spring, um. Director's round table culture was the subject. And, uh, we had, uh, we had three board members who had very, very different backgrounds.

Uh, big corporate background, uh, private equity and corporate background and venture and corporate background. So these are, these are pretty smart folks, and it was a, it was a great round table discussion. And, uh, whose responsibility is it? One of our, one of our respondents, one of our round table people said, [00:17:00] it's the CEO.

You hire for the culture. They will bring, insist on, modify or improve. So if the CEO comes into the company or is promoted in the company and has a cultural way about himself, herself, has a cultural DNA idea, has a cultural rhythm or cadence or habit or focus, you better hope that's the right one because that's, that's the one that is gonna get the most attention.

I had some experience, uh, in, in one organization where we brought in a CEO and he had all the stuff. Technically, operationally, experientially, he was it. And he knew. He knew what he wanted to do with structure and he knew what he wanted to do with some of the strategy issues that were untied. But he was not red hot on culture.

He was dark gray on culture and, and the organization took about a year and a [00:18:00] half to figure that out, and that was that. It, it does, it does, you know, uh, propagate from the top. We've also seen situations though, where boards of companies that have divisions and, and, uh, subordinate groups come together and they, they have, uh.

They have chameleon-like cultures, and I don't advocate for these necessarily, but I think they're pretty cool when I see them. 'cause wow, they've got the culture of this division or that division, or that subsidiary or that product line, or that brand or that category, or that market channel in Europe.

And companies have an opportunity and maybe an obligation to look at those cross comparative cultures within their own corporate empires and say, huh. Maybe we ought to take a little drink of that and bring some of that over here.

Mo: Thank you for that. Uh, one thing you've said is that we're in a consideration culture.

Dan Wolf: Mm-hmm.

Mo: What do you mean by that?

Dan Wolf: Consideration starts with human [00:19:00] dignity and respect. And that's not soft. That's, that's a very durable skill, um, consideration for ideas. Consideration for different points of view, consideration for different perspectives about where the marketplace is going, about where the organization is going.

If we don't have considerate respect and engagement in those different points of view, I think we're missing it because you got so many people sitting around a boardroom that know something, have experienced something. Why not listen to that? To me, that's just foundational, it's principle. The second part of it is when you are, uh, when you are considerate, you consider things and you consider options.

And this is a big deal for me. I think companies, uh, make the mistake of looking at option A and option B on a tough strategic choice or a new business development direction, and they go, [00:20:00] gosh, uh, it's A or B, what are we gonna do? And in in reality, and I think there's good academic grounding for this and a lot of practice experience in this that says your right option is probably gonna be C, D, E, F, or G after you've cooked through and compared and contrasted and analyzed and challenged and tested those and proof tested and pressure tested them.

The right option is not one, that's the first 1, 2, 3, that you think of. And the right option for who? Shareholders and stakeholders creating more value. And then, you know, perhaps capping off this idea of consideration, uh, culture, what do we consider to be the near term and the long term? Because every day we go to work and we're taking care of today and working to do something better tomorrow.

How many people can switch their hat and say, this is my today hat and this is my tomorrow hat. [00:21:00] Um, you, I, I think you can argue that we all ought to have spinning hats.

Mo: Wonderful. So, um, talking about, uh, communication in times of uncertainty, uh, why do you feel it's more important than ever today?

Dan Wolf: So if CEOs and boards don't make things clear.

They are disappointing, if not disrupting most of the people that are designed to follow them. You know, whether it's uh, whether it's the executive suite and senior executives or divisional executives, or frontline first level managers, FLFL people, first line, front frontline. You know, first level managers need clarity to share or they can't help their teammates do more.

And choose better. So that's a big spread between the boardroom and FLFL, but that's where clarity either gets [00:22:00] magnified and amplified and um, and, and optimized, or it confuses everybody. What do confused people do? They, they, they find a way to get unconfused by either leaving or not caring or finding something else to do in the organization that doesn't depend on that clarity anymore.

I, I've had many arguments and, and mixed views on this, and I think if, if we could just communicate so people find their work meaningful. If we could communicate so people would know what it takes to succeed in the work that they have, so people would know who they, who they need to get help from.

Mo: So Dan, there's a growing tension between short-term performance pressures and long-term investment in people.

How are the most effective boards navigating that balance?

Dan Wolf: You know, the, the offerings of companies are changing, uh, at, at a, at a pace that's probably faster than ever before. [00:23:00] We want people in organizations who don't just come into a job description role. We want people to come into organizations that we can properly and, and easily define and say, this is the work to be done.

This is the work to be done. And it, it will be an increasingly in, in my view, anyway, into roles that didn't exist 10 years ago. And that's, that's confusing at the boardroom level because it is, I mean, which roles are they and what is the work to be done? So I think the simple answer to that is follow the work to be done.

Not enough attention paid to that in my, in my humble view.

Mo: Thank you. Uh, and if there's one shift CHROs need to make right now to be more effective in the boardroom, what would that be?

Dan Wolf: Three things. In one basic idea, you want the best CHRO you can, you can get, grow, [00:24:00] develop, nurture, cultivate, multiply, amplify.

They would have to look at the structure of the work of the organization and make sure that we're organized. To compete, we're organized to take care of the natural goals of business, and that the talent platform that they have fills out that organization in lockstep. The, you know, some people have called this the four dimensional chess game, right?

People in the right place, the right time, doing the right stuff. We're slow at that. We continue to be slow at that. And then I think the third thing is you wrap that all up with culture as a system. You know, if, if a c, if a CHRO can do that, they are the catalyst. If they, if they come into the boardroom and listen to what the board is saying and, and they go, okay, yeah, well I'll get back to you.

That's not a catalyst.

Mo: Be catalytic. Brilliant. So last question, Dan, what is one piece of advice that has shaped your work or personal life?

Dan Wolf: One piece of advice, [00:25:00] uh, stay true, be curious, be humble and, uh, be uh, in, you know, I hate to use this, this trite statement, but be your best self. I think that is an ongoing journey for people who really, uh, think about where they're gonna be next year or the year after, or five years down the road.

And my anchors are curiosity and health and. A good dose of spirituality. 'cause I think you have to think through these things on a, on a very meaningful basis

Mo: and that's what will end it for this episode of People and Strategy. A huge thanks to Dan for your valuable insights

Dan Wolf: Mo. Thank you very much.

Mo: Thank you very much.