Trump's First 100 Days: Strategic HR Insights for Advocacy and Impact

Mo Fathelbab: Welcome to today's episode of People and Strategy. I'm your host, Mo Fathelbab, president of International Facilitators Organization, People and Strategy is a podcast from the SHRM Executive Network. The premier network of executives in the field of human resources. Each week we bring you in-depth conversations with the country's top HR executives and thought leaders.

For today's conversation, I'm excited to be joined by Emily Dickens, Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs, and corporate secretary for SHRM. Welcome, Emily. 

Emily Dickens: Thank you. Thank you. I guess I'm a thought leader today. Is that what I'm 

Mo Fathelbab: You're always a thought leader. 

Emily Dickens: Okay. Alright. I'm excited to be here. 

Mo Fathelbab: Well, great to have you with us.

So Emily, I wanna start with, tell us your journey of how you came to work in government affairs. 

Emily Dickens: Oh. I was actually in law school and a professor came up to me and said, my law partner is the new mayor of the town of Chapel Hill, North Carolina. He wants to hire a recent law school grad to run his office as his mayoral aid.

And I recommended you because I know by day you work, in an office and by night you're in law school. So first of all, I thought, wow, it's amazing. 'cause she wasn't one of my professors, she was an advisor on one of the. Clubs I belong to, but I did the interview. Kevin and I seemed to get along well, and so I ended up starting my legal career post law school career in local government.

Transitioned. A few years later, he kicked me out. He was like, look, I need a new law school student. This was supposed to get you started, right? Transitioned to working on an institution of higher education through the relationships, by meeting other mayors. The mayor of Fayetteville, North Carolina said, I know about this opening at a, at our campus there you should apply.

So ended up becoming director of government and community affairs on a college campus. Loved it. Loved that. We were seven miles from Fort Bragg, so military affairs fell under my portfolio too. So I did state, local, and military affairs and community relations, so I got to sit on the local chamber, all those things.

Then ended up going to work for the University of North Carolina system office. That campus was one of the 17 campuses, as an assistant VP of federal relations there. So focused mostly on federal government affairs, and then got my first job leading my own government affairs team in DC as the VP of Public Policy for the Association of Governing Boards of Colleges and Universities.

while there I get a call from our CEO, Johnny C. Taylor Jr. Who had been a mentor. When I got the offer from a GBI called Johnny to, 'cause I knew nothing. I'd worked for the state. I was like, I need your help in, you know, what should I be asking for? So he knew I was in DC and he called and he said, I need you to come to work for me.

I need a new general counsel. I. So I ended up at Thurgood Marshall College Fund with Johnny. I thought I was just gonna be GC day one, the head of government affairs. Quick. No, no. So Johnny being, Johnny says, well, you're gonna win government affairs too. So I did that and then seven years ago, he got the offer from SHRM and he just told me the.

Following Monday after he got the offer I was coming to She, so that's how I ended up here. 

Mo Fathelbab: You couldn't say no to that offer? 

Emily Dickens: Well, I guess not now. After I said, well, okay, that's what you said, but I'm gonna need to see them writing. I wanted to know how hu But it was a great only concern. I think I may have shared this with others before, was I had been advocating for higher education and higher access to advocate to higher ed for so long.

I was concerned I wouldn't be able to. Pivot to the concerns of HR and the workforce. But what we found is that connection between the education to employment pipeline is so important to the long-term success of our economy and this country that it was very easy to pivot. And then also the people I was advocating for, the HR professionals.

They didn't have anyone who was really their voice, because every day they're worrying about our lives and livelihoods. They're very unselfish people when you think about HR professionals. And so it's my opportunity to be their voice while they're so focused on our lives and livelihoods. 

Mo Fathelbab: So it may not be obvious to everybody, but speak to the link between the importance of education.

And the future. 

Emily Dickens: Ooh. Can we talk? So, we've been talking about this for so time, some, so many years, and we've been trying, our first year here, we partnered with the National School Board Association because we saw students were graduating without what you used to call soft skills. We now call them power skills, but we knew they were leaving K 12.

Without these power skills, the critical thinking skills, how to get along with others, how to carry yourself in the workplace, just these basic skills were missing. And so we did a partnership with them. Well, then politics got in the way, not on our end. On their end, they were dealing with a lot of local government politics and got subsumed with that.

And so the project. Went by its wayside. And I've been saying to Johnny for last few years, we've gotta get back to this because what we're seeing is people unprepared and we're talking about skills based hiring. And I can hire you because you have the technical skills, but the problem is I get you into the workplace and then you don't know how to be part of the workforce.

And, so there, there's still a gap. And what we realized that there are missing pieces. Yes. On the technical skills aspect, that in colleges and universities, that in K 12 settings, in a community colleges, we're not making a connection between the needs of industry and what our students are being taught.

And so that syllabus that the professor's been using for the last 10 years. It's outta whack, right? It, just has, does not reflect what today's needs are. So who should be helping to bridge that gap? Well, it impacts HR the most. 'cause we're trying to look for the talent. So SHRM should be there. And so our Equa initiative, the Education Employment Pipeline really focuses on what we call is a system that is leaky, broken, and busted.

And Johnny testified that was the language we used. It was like one of those shower moments we were about to write his, Testimony and I was like, oh my God, leaky, broken, busted. This is what the issue is, and let's give people a picture of it. Even with it being leaky, broken and busted, our education employment pipeline is amongst the best in the world.

It is the best we're America. But the issue is in order to stay ahead of the game, we have got to invest in closing those leaks and those gaps and those busted pipes so that when someone leaves K 12, they can enter the work. Place with a skill and the power skills to be successful, and then even if it's college, because I know this focus on college, we want, no matter what your journey is, you gotta be able to enter the workplace so that we can take the most advantage of the opportunity that we're providing you with that job.

Mo Fathelbab: I think that's a good start. Hopefully we can make that happen. So today. We're here to talk about the first a hundred days of the administration, as it affects the workplace. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. so first, if you could just help us, for those that don't know, I. What is an executive order and what powers does it have?

Emily Dickens: Okay. I do the speech called, schoolhouse Rock. We all assume that everybody understands the three branches of government. Some people didn't go to school on the day. We learned that. So I always say, let's, here's a nice reminder. We have three branches of government, the executive, the legislative, and the judicial branch.

The executive branch. Executive orders are a tool that the executive branch can use. To change and impact policy and at all levels in all different types of policy, be it regulatory policy, be it policy related to certain actions of certain agencies. But it only can go so far. And if you remember always the three branches of government, it's about a balance of power.

That's why our forefathers created the three branches. And so, yes, it appears right now. That there's all this power here and that third branch judicial is maybe the only thing stopping it. But there are some pieces in the middle that legislative, that's Congress needs to do. And the problem we've been saying for the last few years is that Congress really hasn't been doing their job and that pulling their weight in the balance system.

So yes, executive order is, the president has an idea and he, could decide, this is what I wanna do, I wanna change, and he can put it out there now. How does it get enacted? What can it do? Yeah, so absolutely. If it's over the federal government and the federal workforce, that's his workforce. And so just like your CEO can come down with an edict, you gotta be in at eight 30 in the morning.

It's kind of like that. And so he is, it is gonna have more power when it impacts the workforce, but that's also subject to preexisting agreements with labor. And I need people to step back and realize that yes, in some instances it is the end all and be all, but for now and for this period of time, because as many of you know, on the first day of the next administration, Just like this president did. Many of these can be rolled back, but for this period of time, unless it is challenged in the court of law and found to be unconstitutional or against the law that there are some teeth to these, but how much teeth to it? Because there is guidance. There was guidance that you should be making some certain cuts in the federal government, but ultimately it has been left to the discretion of the sector.

Secretaries indulge to some extent to say what that is going to be. So some of them are very specific, some of them aren't, and they take various forms of the over a hundred. So I think he's done 124 in a hundred days, which is a record. 

Mo Fathelbab: I was about to ask, does that compare 

Emily Dickens: it? So we've had other presidents who've done 40 something, 70 something.

So we've seen some good numbers. We've not seen. Seeing these numbers, these are at a fast clip and what we're thinking is if you are at home. You were in charge for four years, you get sent home, but you know you're gonna run again. You got four years to come up with everything you would've done that you didn't get to do, right?

. So he had four years to sit down and think about what he wanted to do and to get him out quickly. I do think that this is gonna slow down at some point, but I think for him it was you have constituents who voted for you for certain things. It's, messaging. So the other thing, executive orders are messaging.

It is messaging to your base and to others about what your priorities are. they've impacted us, and I'm sure we'll go into this, in a number of ways. And because there've been so many, I tell people it's like it's whiplash. What you need to focus on is the ones that impact you, that you have the most control over right now.

Because right now in this moment, we know that this is not necessarily the law of the land. It is the preferred actions of the administration over what he controls for the most part. So that's an important distinction. Yeah. 

Mo Fathelbab: Some people assume it's automatically the law, the land. 

Emily Dickens: It's not the law. And so maybe that I did a long way to get there, but I think it's important for you all to understand these are not laws.

this is policy, these are actions, and some of those are within his control based on what existing law is, but others are not, which is why you see some challenges, and we've seen this the whole, anytime there's a president there, we've seen that there are challenges and then there are still things, example Department of Ed.

By law Congress created, you know, just like remember for those who might remember, if you were here for September 11th, Congress created Homeland Security. We didn't always have DHHS, right? Congress creates these entities, and so ultimately, to close it. Congress will have to step in and do something.

That's one example. There are other things where Congress can step in and we just have to wait and see for them to figure out what it is they're gonna do. 

Mo Fathelbab: Yeah. Yeah. So of these executive orders. Which are most important, which should HR leaders be focusing on? I know that we've already discussed some of the DEI, work in previous episodes with Alex Alonso.

other than that, what other things do we need to be focused on?

Emily Dickens: I know for a lot of people, we've also had a number of sessions on immigration policy. And for my HR people, I did a session on I nine and, we had a couple of, our consultants come in for that session. What bothered me the most was there were so many people there who.

Didn't have an I 9 policy, had never encountered ICE in their workplaces and didn't have a plan. And one of my questions to them that day was, you know, if ICE were to show up at your offices today, who's the POC? It can't be the security guard. Right. So what's your plan? I think you gotta, you, when I look at that and think about the, what impact that could have and the fact 60% of our membership are in some type of manufacturing or industry where you could be hiring people that for whatever reason, Don't have their, their citizenship. You gotta think about that as well. And so I think that is the number one thing. Now, I'm also gonna say, of course, the IND has an impact on your workplaces, and especially for those who've been very public about. Whatever their commitment is, we've gotta recognize there are workplaces that have been focused on inclusion and diversity for years.

What they didn't do is go out and make a public announcement, and they're still doing the good work they need to do to make sure that all Americans have opportunity in their workplaces. So if you've been, what you've been doing is within the scope of the current law. Then a lot of this I and d that we're seeing referred to in these executive order orders may not impact you.

'cause some of it's about what the federal government and federal employees can do. So make sure you're differentiating between those things that are specific for federal government and what he'd like to see the private sector do. And if your private sector. That does business with the government.

Of course, you've got to pay attention at a different level because as a contractor that you are relying on that, and we're seeing that across industries. You're seeing higher education institutions who now. They may not be contractors, but they get government grants. So if you are an industry that relies on the government, absolutely.

You gotta be paying a different level of attention and scrutiny. And we always say, don't stop what you're doing, but you know, review it and evolve. Right. We were always saying that it's a time for you to review and make sure that in your haste. To, solve some of the problems, social problems in this country within your workplace.

You may have gone too far in a direction that right now is not codified within the law. Make sure that you don't find yourself in that situation. But I still say when we're talking about people and talent, you know, those are two of the big things that we focused on with the, the EOS. 

Mo Fathelbab: So what do HR leaders have to think about, keep in mind, in order to be compliant?

Emily Dickens: So first of all, when I talk about the immigration aspect, do you have an I nine policy and what is your plan? Should someone come to you and say, we want to see your, because there are two reasons you I that ICE could come, they could come in and with a warrant for your, I nines and your materials.

Right. Just to kind of check to see if you're, what you're doing is compliant or they can come asking for a person. Either way. What's your plan? Do you have, we know I nines became electronic. there was an opportunity to do it electronically. Did you save the back? Did you save all of the reference material?

Do you have that? Make sure you do this. Just do a check on anything related to compliance. Now, you know, I, know it's a lot, but here's a good opportunity to stop and breathe and say, here's a great project to just really make sure all of your paperwork is in. Order. Is there anyone who may have submitted to you questionable material?

Who at the time you kind of were like, ah, yeah, right. When was the last time you've done background checks? You know, there are some organizations that do it every couple of years. make sure that you're up to date and if not, you go ahead and do that now in case something has come up that you knew that you didn't know about when the person was hired.

So, I'll say that the same thing on your I and D is what, does it look like in your organization? What has your focus been? What have you been communicating to your people? Are there people within your culture who don't feel that they're seeing or heard? And you've seen these rumblings. There are ways for you to have open conversations about, are there groups that haven't been getting any attention?

And they feel like that, that they're, not being heard. They're not being seen. What can we do to make them feel more included? So there's some basic low hanging fruit that you can do there. And the other thing is don't feel like you have to be the person to track. Everything and whether it's SHRM or something else, your outside council, your benefits council, whoever it is, there are other organizations you're affiliated with who are tracking what's going on with the executive orders, and the moment there's something comes up that could impact the workplace, they're going to inform you and then talk to your colleagues on your ETE to see whether, you know, this is something they can help out with or it's impacting their, part of the business as well.

Mo Fathelbab: Yeah, 

Emily Dickens: and, you have the. Three Cs I believe. Consistency, compliance, and concise. And concise, right? Things as, As simple as possible. Okay. Here's the thing. There's lots of turnover and a lot of people suffer from that in our organizations, as we've seen. And so if you have processes that are dependent on individuals as opposed to just being simple, my husband who's a K through eight administrator always reminds me the average person, has comprehends on an eighth grade level.

How simple are your policies and processes so that the average person, if they are called to be the one to lead at any point? Can do. So making sure your policies survive, you and other individuals are so important. Making them concise, making them clear and less complex. The issue for us, when we talk about the regulatory environment, we hadn't talked about that, but that's been a big thing in the a hundred first a hundred days, is what could happen to all of the things that.

EEOC has been working on over the last few years that NLRB has been working on that Department of Labor, right? We're still waiting on what's gonna happen with overtime and some of those things. Do you know those things are coming up and could be impacted? 'cause showroom spent a whole lot of time last year and the year before telling you about 'em.

Have you looked at, you know, do will you need to be making changes? Are there ways to do it? How can you make your life less? Complex. What, how are you using AI to track and make your life less than less complex? When you're thinking about all the changes that are going on, 

Mo Fathelbab: how, is SHRM using ai? Just as an example?

Emily Dickens: I'm so proud of us. Lemme so I will tell you this. A couple of Decembers ago, we were at an event and we heard a professor from Wharton who said to us, go home and encourage your staff. To use ai. 

Open the doors. Don't be fearful because you don't worry about cybersecurity, worry about all those things.

Privacy don't be as fearful. It is a new tool allowed to explore the tool. So we said over the holiday, you all get a subscription to whatever you want. SHRM will pay for it. We want you to familiarize yourself with that. They did, and we've now consistently been doing training on using ai. We continue to pay for that, and we've gotten to a point where we've decided what are the ones we're willing to pay for?

'cause there's lots of them too. So we. You know, found out which ones were most used by our staff. and now by the end of this year, we'll be able, during the bonus season, to ask people how are you using it to help you do your job for efficiencies and things. And that's gonna be part of the bonus discussion.

. Because someone may find a way that is helping them, that ultimately could help the whole organization. So, we're looking for innovation and ingenuity there. So we have. Fully embrace this, and I'm so excited. I'm telling others, don't be afraid of it. We know with any new tool there are issues, but embrace this because as we say, AI plus AI is the ROI.

There's, without that human intelligence you bring, the AI isn't gonna be at its maximum capacity. 

Mo Fathelbab: AI plus AI is the ROI. 

Emily Dickens: It is. It is. And your job, you're not gonna lose your job to ai. You're gonna lose your job to someone who. Knows how to use ai. 

Mo Fathelbab: So, when it comes to education and employment.

How would you advise HR leaders to move forward? 

Emily Dickens: I think you need to spend more time talking to the, the people who are training, the people who you hire. So, if you are a local business, and I, speak a lot about our small and mid-size companies because I want you to have the same opportunities as our large companies in a way.

So how can we do this at your size and level? Are you engaged locally with the industries, with the schools, with the institution of higher ed, the training facilities, your workforce development boards? Are you engaged at any level with them? If not, start. Tell them what you need. Federal dollars for workforce development boards.

You all hear us talk about wheela a lot. That helps to fund workforce development boards locally. Most of them are at the county level, but there are state workforce development boards. I've been advocating that HR professionals should be appointed to those boards. We actually sent a letter to all 50 governors saying, when you make your appointments this year, if, it's not a mandatory seat.

Make it one or make sure you appoint an HR professional. The problem is that we've gotta start connecting at the local level more so they know what your needs are. Where is your industry going in the next few years? Let them know so that they can now, as they're training these people, keep it in mind.

Partner with your institutions of a higher education partner with K 12 Run for school board. School board helps with curriculum. You can add some value there. So I think these are just some low hanging fruit you can do there, but also be more transparent with your community about what your needs are for training, and then understand that you may have to train.

So internally, what resources, what AI tools, what other tools can you use to create specialized training for what you need? So it can help you better onboard people. Because once they have great onboarding, as you all know, and they know that this is a role that a specific. To what, you need there. And they've got that training, they're gonna stay, you're gonna retain them.

. And it's gonna take you a short amount of period to get them on board and trained to. So, you know, again, this has nothing to do with policy. This is like really just, I, like to say basic critical thinking, common sense, common sense is how connected are you to the people to whom that you're recruiting.

And the more you can get connected to the places and spaces where they're coming from, the better off you'll be in having the talent you need. And as a little Benny, you're gonna give back. Oh yeah. Look, I, serve as chair of the board of our board of trustees at my alma mater. I don't talk about anything in my speeches to them, but the connection between education or I talk about getting jobs.

There's, the provost is there to talk about the academic programs, the chancellors there to talk about what she talks about. My job as a trustee, I think, is to say, look, ultimately I want these students to graduate and to get not just any job, but a job that's gonna set them on a path that is going to help with their lives and their livelihoods.

And if you are sitting in those roles, I think it's important that you talk about that because I want people to get into jobs, get into roles, and take care of their families. 'cause ultimately that's what HR does every day. You help us take care of our families and we've gotta tighten up the link between getting people into jobs and getting, keeping them in those jobs.

Mo Fathelbab: I love that. So let's talk about state and local. What's happening at this state and local level, perhaps as a result of all the changes that we're seeing now. So 

Emily Dickens: unlike Congress, state and local legislatures are working and I'm so and look. It, on one hand, it makes our jobs a little difficult when states are each doing something different.

That's the biggest issue for me. Paid leave, as you know, is something that we've advocated for at the federal level. States are tired of waiting on Congress to do something about it, so they've started to do their own thing. The problem is when you, you're a multi-state organization. The states that your work, that your businesses have footprints in are doing different things.

So our biggest piece that we're advocating for there is. Check your neighbor. If you are a state that wants to start looking at paid leave, looking at paid transparency laws, things of that nature, look at what the other states have done. Learn from that and replicate the things that are working. So you make it easier for business to do business when every state is different.

It's hard. That's why we're always looking for federal intervention because you think if you got one rule, it works and it makes life a little less complex for our HR professionals that have to do this. But I do love that we, there's a recognition at the state level that something has to be done to assist industry, and they're trying to close that gap.

Are they doing it in the best way? Some of these pay transparency laws, as you all know, are cumbersome and too generic. We got them trying to, now legislate ai. We ended up in New York a couple of years ago because not the state legislature, but the city council was passing bills about regulating AI and so that's making our life a little difficult there.

But I love that they're talking about it. And the number one thing you all may not think about that I think about is today's state legislature is tomorrow's member of Congress. So, the earlier, you start talking to them about issues and they know who you are and they could use you as a resource.

When they make it up here to DC it makes our life a lot easier when they know about what HR professionals deal with on a daily basis. 

Mo Fathelbab: Well, that really speaks volumes to your experience. I. Legislature. So, thank you for sharing that little tidbit. Yeah. So last question, what's your forecast for the next a hundred days and what steps can our audience take to be prepared?

Emily Dickens: First thing I'm gonna tell you, and I think people are taught or hen me say this, but breathe, we're not gonna solve everything in the next a hundred days or a hundred days after that. Focus on what are the three or four things that are most important to your business right now. And focus there and leverage your resources.

So, whether that's SHRM, your outside counsel or others to watch the things that could be coming up, that could be an issue. But find those things where you become the expert in-house for your organization. Because if you're seated at the right hand of the CEO, you gotta be that person that can be the expert about two or three things that he, that matters to that CEO do that.

Don't get whiplash, don't keep, you know, as a new EEO comes out every day and you're like this, no, I need you to stay as focused as possible in the next 100 days. When we think about regulatory issues, we're thinking about the fact that we have A-E-E-O-C without a quorum. So, you're gonna get lots of directives from the acting chair, but most of that are directives and there's nothing for you to act on because they don't have a quorum.

Right. NL Rrb doesn't have a corp, so you'll get hear things and you'll get caught up in thinking this is new law. It's not right. These are people who are sitting in leadership roles and just like with the executive orders, they're putting out promulgating policy discussions and ways that they'd like things to be done.

But unless you know specifically that it's something that's gonna change today, there's very little within the purview of the. Acting that they could do, especially without the quorum. So, breathe, make sure you're focusing on things that are actually changing what you have to do day to day. In the next a hundred days, we're going to, we're seeing the budget.

They've got a framework for the budget. We don't have a budget number. Se September 30th is when our federal budget ends. There's gonna be a lot of. Focused on that. So again, Congress is not gonna be focusing on this, but here's the bigger issue. We're seeing a lot of the appointments on the presidential appointments being held up now, which we didn't see in the first 100 days.

And so, the more you hold up some of these appointments, the more you have career people who are working in these roles. Temporarily. And so, things are still gonna be a little slower. We're meeting with department, the Secretary of Labor next week. Johnny and I are meeting with her. We're excited about that and we're gonna hear what her priorities are.

'cause she is in seat, she has been appointed, her deputy is appointed. So, we know that agency is gonna start getting to work on some critical issues and we'll keep you apprised of that. But right now, focus on the things that are most important to you and your organization, and then leverage the tentacles of your contacts and networks to get up.

Dates on the other things that may come that could, but know where to focus. I think that's most important. 

Mo Fathelbab: I think that is sage advice for all times. Thank you, Emily. And that's where we'll end it for this episode of People and Strategy. A huge thanks to Emily for your valuable insights. For more information, visit SHRM dot org slash advocacy.

You can follow the People in Strategy Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Also, podcast reviews have a real impact on podcast visibility. So, if you enjoyed today's episode, leave a review to help others find the show. Finally, you could find all our episodes on our website at charm.org/podcasts. Thank you for listening and have a great day.

Please note: Some of the data points discussed in this episode may have changed since the recording date.