More Than a “Situationship”: How People Managers and HR Can Work Better Together

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Hey, it's your favorite co-worker, Anne, and this is the All Things Work podcast. Think about the skills you developed before you got hired for your current role. Now, think about the skills your job asks of you today. For a lot of us, those two lists look very different, and they're drifting further apart every year.

New SHRM research shows job postings are continuously calling for more skills. Since 2019, demand has jumped in areas like AI, machine learning, critical thinking, and leadership. Roles are getting bigger, broader, and more complex. Yet here's the data point that stopped me in my tracks: 72% of organizations build their learning and development strategy around current skills needs, and only 4% plan for the skills they'll need more than five years from now.

So while the target keeps moving, most organizations are not moving with it. That's what we're unpacking today — what's driving this skill shift, why your current workforce may be your greatest untapped resource, and how people managers and HR can turn learning into real business results. I had two guests who know this research inside and out, and I'll introduce them right after this.

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I'm thrilled to share that in a recent SHRM webinar, two of my SHRM colleagues joined me for this discussion. Ashley Miller is the Director of Research and Operations at SHRM. Ashley helps translate SHRM data into insights that HR professionals and business leaders can act on right away.

And Sally Windisch is a senior researcher at SHRM and the lead researcher behind our new report, Skills Revolution: Preparing Employees for Tomorrow's Jobs. Sally analyzed years of job postings data and surveyed more than 1,800 organizations and 6,000 workers around the world to understand how skills are changing and what the most successful organizations do about it.

I'm excited for you to learn from our conversation. So Ashley, I want to start with you. What exactly sparked the research for the Skills Revolution, and what questions were you and the team trying to answer when you set out to study how skills are evolving?
Ashley Miller: I think it really stemmed from the macroeconomic environment we're in today. We do research surrounding all things work — people, talent, culture — and we kept hearing the same thing over and over: the difficulty organizations face in finding the talent they need to remain competitive.

We also have a labor economics team here at SHRM that uses government and publicly available data to understand what the labor market and skill demands look like. That whole notion of talent models — build, buy, borrow, bot — came into focus. Buying talent right now is not the most viable option; organizations are having a really hard time recruiting for the skills they need. So our next logical thought was: build. What does that look like, not just historically, but for tomorrow?

More importantly, we wanted to arm HR professionals and leaders with the data they need to take back to their leadership and make business cases about how critical best-in-class learning and development is to the future of their organizations. When you can present a business case with hard data about what ROI will look like, it's much easier to get those initiatives approved. Those were really our key goals in embarking on this research.
Anne: And that's why we're here talking about it. It's so important. Sally, I want to toss it over to you. The title of the report is Skills Revolution — with the R in parentheses to play with the word "evolution" — and I love that. Would you say this is an evolution, a gradual shift we can keep pace with, or is it closer to a revolution?
Sally Windisch: That's a great question, and I also really love the title because I think it does a nice job of capturing that it's really a little bit of both. But honestly, if I had to choose, I think it might be a little bit closer to a revolution. Skills and competencies have always evolved, but what's different now is the pace of change and the range of skills employees are expected to have — both are changing very fast.

We really can't approach learning the same way we always have. It requires much more intentionality and forward planning for learning initiatives to be effective. The skills themselves are evolving, but I think the way organizations develop and maintain those skills is where the revolution piece really sits.
Anne: I love that. I sense the urgency in it. And speaking of urgency — Ashley, when you first saw the findings from the Skills Revolution report, what jumped out as the most urgent thing for HR and people managers to hear?
Ashley Miller: First, I have to add onto what Sally said about the skills revolution. Some of our colleagues fought hard for it to be "skills revolution" — plural — so we had a fun time internally figuring out what to call this research.

What was most urgent for me was the numbers. Sally and I work on the same team, and whenever she's conducting analysis, she gets incredibly excited before she even starts writing the report. As those numbers came out, they were remarkable. This is what we call one of our signature thought leadership studies at SHRM. With that type of research, we build new frameworks, conduct root cause analyses, test hypotheses, and connect what we're researching to outcomes. It takes longer and we dig even deeper than we typically do.

When these numbers started coming out, the most urgent thing for me was the ROI — and not just within the learning and development function itself. Getting this into the hands of our industry was critical because, whether we like to admit it or not, L&D is often not the last thing to get cut from a budget. Historically, when the talent market was in a much different situation, deprioritizing L&D or leaving it up to individual employees was more the standard. You cannot do that anymore.

You have to invest in L&D if you want your company to remain competitive and have the skills it needs to be successful. Seeing those hard numbers — 3.2, 3.4, 5.5 — the kind of value realization you can see when you do L&D right — for me, that was the most exciting and important thing to get into everybody's hands.
Anne: And it's happening right now. That's why it's so important. Budgets are being finalized as we speak. So let's dig into what's really happening beneath the surface, starting with the skills themselves.

Sally, your analysis shows the average number of skills listed per job posting has climbed steadily over the past decade. Comparing now to about 2019 — roughly seven years ago — some skills have surged. We're seeing AI and machine learning, but we're also seeing critical thinking, problem-solving, initiative, and leadership. It's interesting that both technical skills like AI and power skills like critical thinking are rising together. Why do you think that is?
Sally Windisch: I think the two are rising together because, on one hand, AI is changing the work — but it cannot remove the human side of it. AI can help us automate tasks and move quicker, but the human side is still needed for problem-solving, decision-making, and leadership. Those things cannot be replaced by AI.

As Ashley mentioned, our labor economics team has been tracking this for a couple of years, and they're also seeing that employers don't just need people who can use the technology — they need people who can use it thoughtfully and safely, and who can provide the human touch when it comes to discernment. That's the artificial intelligence and human intelligence connection that we at SHRM talk about. At the end of the day, an organization's customers and clients are real people.

Think about how many times each of us has called a customer service line with an issue and gotten redirected between AI agents, finding yourself saying, "Representative, representative." That can be frustrating, because when we have human problems, they can only truly be solved and understood by other humans. So when the technology becomes more advanced, those human skills become more important.
Anne: I agree — and I think a lot of us can relate to that moment of yelling at the phone, "Just give me a human being, please." So what does that mean for an employee who was hired for one set of skills but is now expected to deliver a much wider range because their role has evolved over time?
Sally Windisch: Part of what's happening is that as technology becomes more complex, it puts additional responsibility on the people side to oversee it and apply judgment to make sure it's being used accurately and responsibly. Someone may have started a job and worked there for three years without ever needing to use a tool like ChatGPT, and now they find they have to use it.

At the same time, work is becoming more cross-functional across departments. Job changes can be exciting at first — it's a new opportunity — but employees shouldn't be expected to close those gaps on their own. If employers are asking people to bring a wider range of skills to the table, employers also have a responsibility to make sure those employees are supported with the right tools and resources to upskill, and most importantly, that they have the time during work to develop those skills. That helps employees feel like their growth is supported rather than feeling like more and more is simply being added to their plate.
Anne: Talk about the stress load — it can really take a toll. So Ashley, the research found 72% of organizations say their L&D strategy is driven mainly by current skills needs. Only about a quarter look three to four years ahead, and just 4% plan beyond five years. That's a remarkably small number. Why do you think so many organizations are stuck in the present, and what are the risks of staying there?
Ashley Miller: That's such a multifaceted answer. And by the way, bless the 4% who are planning beyond five years — I don't know anyone who can accurately predict what the world of work will look like in five years right now given how rapidly it's evolving. But kudos for having the time, resources, and focus on innovation to stay ahead of the curve.

I think the reason so many organizations are stuck in the present is that most are working on the same playing field: everybody is swamped, everybody is overwhelmed by the pace of change. It's so difficult to keep up with everything that is evolving. Most organizations don't have the resources to sit around and innovate. People are keeping their eye on the prize right in front of them — what do we need right now to stay afloat?

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. You need what you need right now. But if that's all you're looking at, you will always be stuck in that vicious cycle. Within the confines of whatever resources are available, it's really imperative to do something to start anticipating what might be needed.

There's also a correlation between AI aptitude and critical thinking: the higher your AI aptitude, the more likely you are to demonstrate strong critical thinking skills in how you use that AI. Exercising care and caution when leveraging AI tools every day can make a huge impact — whether your organization makes a costly mistake by leaning too heavily on AI output, or whether someone has the sound judgment to question everything that comes through from an AI tool. The more ready an organization can stay in this respect, the better off they'll be in the long term.
Anne: It's important to remember that not every organization or every team is in the same place when it comes to being able to look five years ahead. Ashley, I want to jump to you again — and Sally, please weigh in too. The report also looked at which specific L&D practices are most strongly tied to better performance, and three rose to the top: personalizing learning to employee needs, introducing new learning pathways, and having senior leaders actively promote L&D.

Personalized learning was the only practice linked to all four outcomes — financial performance, non-financial KPIs, engagement, and culture. So Ashley, what does personalized learning look like, and why do you think it carries so much weight?
Ashley Miller: So much of what we do comes with that "what's in it for me?" question. When you're doing change management effectively, you're conveying to people how the change impacts them specifically. Broad communications — here's what's happening, everyone needs to know this — are great and necessary, but you have to drill down deeper. I think the same goes for why personalized learning carries so much weight.

Yes, you'll have broader learning needs for the entire organization. Here at SHRM, for example, flexibility and agility are guiding principles we might develop learning programs around for everyone. But I'm not going to send everyone across the business to a data visualization course just because I find it valuable — because it might not be relevant for everyone. When something isn't relevant to you, you disengage.

Tying learning to an individual's role, level, development goals, and career goals adds that "what's in it for me?" element that makes it so much more engaging. Sally, curious to hear your thoughts as well — what did you see in the data?
Sally Windisch: I love this question. Personalization tells your people that you see them as individuals with unique roles and unique contributions. I believe strongly that when organizations show they see their people and are investing in them, their people tend to invest back.

When your employer sends a clear message that your growth is a priority, that helps someone feel valued in their role and in their place in the company. They're not worried about being replaced because the employer is sending a very clear message that they see the value that person brings — and also the potential they have to grow with the company. As a result, employees feel more connected to their work. The learning is more relevant. They feel more supported and more engaged. And when people feel that way, they tend to bring their best selves to work, which does wonderful things for engagement, culture, and both financial and non-financial KPIs.
Anne: We like to feel seen as employees. That's not hard to grasp, but it's something we can easily forget when we're all so busy just trying to keep up with the pace of change.

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Now that we've learned how to identify skills gaps and upskilling and reskilling opportunities, let's dive into what HR professionals and people managers can start doing right now. Let's start with HR. Many organizations want to develop their people but may not know where to begin. So how can HR professionals equip people managers to spot emerging skills needs on their teams — maybe before those needs turn into gaps?
Sally Windisch: I think the single most important thing for people managers is communication. I'll start with one-on-ones. Often, manager one-on-ones stay very focused on day-to-day work, but those conversations don't often include development discussions. Those usually happen once a year on an annual cycle.

In one-on-one meetings, it's also important to discuss the skills and areas that the employee themselves wants to grow in — and to do it more frequently than annually. That also helps ensure the organization isn't just addressing gaps that are already affecting performance. Good measurement tools are a really effective way to build up your learning function, and in order to use those tools, you first have to have these conversations with your employees.

It's also important in these one-on-ones to get an understanding from employees — who are closest to the day-to-day work — about what blockers and gaps are making their jobs more difficult, what's changing, and what they need or want to develop now or in the next six months. Managers also need a full picture of what development opportunities are actually available and what the business priorities are, so they can have constructive back-and-forth with their employees.

This is also where HR professionals come in. In their role, they can help managers translate business priorities into development priorities and bring those conversations into one-on-ones with their direct reports.
Ashley Miller: I'd add that calibration is really important. There's often some discrepancy between employee self-evaluations and manager evaluations — sometimes minor, sometimes significant. Having effective communication pathways within the organization to discuss any misalignment ensures we're accurately pinpointing where someone stands today on a specific skill required for their role.

We also can't just rely on job descriptions to determine necessary skills. As we said earlier, your job title and description might stay the same depending on how often those update cycles happen in your organization. But new skills could be necessary for new responsibilities, and they may not be documented. A skill might be genuinely important for a specific person in that role at that moment, but if it's never been defined in the job description — and the employee has never been measured against it — it gets missed. Communication and calibration, working together well, set you up a lot better.
Anne: We talked a little bit about people managers and their great impact when it comes to personalized learning. I'm curious — how do new learning pathways like stretch assignments, internal mobility, and mentoring from your people manager fit into that picture?
Sally Windisch: Stretch assignments are an especially interesting one because they speak to multiple things at once. First, they reflect a manager's trust in their direct report — the trust that this person can carry out an assignment they might not fully be able to do independently yet, while recognizing their potential to do so with some managerial support.

But a stretch assignment is also a form of personalized learning, because the employee is building a specific skill set and applying it to real work they're doing day to day. As the research shows, there are many ways personalized learning can mutually benefit both the organization and its employees. Out of all the options, stretch assignments are probably my favorite — they fit really nicely into the full picture.
Anne: I want to throw in one more question before we get to our final one. We've talked a lot about organizations — but what can the individual employee do as they see their company try to evolve with the skills needs we're seeing in this revolution? Ashley, can I put you on the spot first?
Ashley Miller: Speak up. I think the squeaky wheel gets the oil — as my grandmother says. We've all been in situations where we assume people know things that they do not know. People are not mind readers, and pretty much everyone is overwhelmed and busy these days. So raise your hand.

While it may be incumbent upon your people managers and organizational leaders to ensure you get the development you want and need, it is also on you to speak up about wanting those opportunities. A lot of people still follow that traditional career path of: I work really hard, I go the extra mile, I'll get promoted. That's not really how it works anymore. You have to take agency over your career. If you want to learn new things, grow in different ways, volunteer for stretch assignments, or have your name top of mind in a room you're not in — you have to help yourself get into that room, even when you're not actually there.

If you're in the right organization — one doing best-in-class L&D — they will work and partner with you to ensure you get that development.
Anne: Sally, what are your thoughts?
Sally Windisch: I completely agree with Ashley. The initiative and the agency are really important because managers can't read your mind. If there's a specific development opportunity you're interested in, or a project coming up where a particular skill would be helpful to have, those one-on-one manager conversations are hopefully a safe place to bring up those development conversations. Because if your manager doesn't know that's an area you want to grow in, there's nothing that can be done. So yes — the squeaky wheel gets the oil, one thousand %.
Anne: I want to wrap up with our final question, because we covered a lot of ground today. If you both had to leave HR professionals and people managers with one mindset shift about skills development, what would that be?
Ashley Miller: I have to kick it over to Sally first. Sally and I have been talking about this, and I know what she's going to say. I don't want to steal her thunder — I'll play off of it, because she's been talking about this for a while and I completely agree with her.
Sally Windisch: Thank you, Ashley. The platform I will live and die on is this: L&D should not be a nice to have — it needs to be a need to have. From the research, we've seen all of the wonderful things that L&D can do for organizations: not just closing skills gaps or helping employees maintain skills over time, but also the impact on financial and non-financial KPIs, engagement, and organizational culture.

When it comes time for budget cuts, L&D is often the first to go. But when you look at these numbers, you really can't argue with them. A good business strategy would be to prioritize L&D and shift the focus to make it something imperative to your business — not an afterthought.
Ashley Miller: Ditto, and I'd double down on the need-to-have framing. One of the ways you make it a need to have in your organization is by allocating the time and effort necessary to build measurement systems unique to your organization that demonstrate the impact of the L&D you invest in.

Yes, you can take our data — and we found some incredible outcomes — but that might only get your foot in the door for an initial investment. For sustained investment around L&D, you will likely be asked to show impact. Anecdotal evidence is often why things end up on the chopping block. If you work with your team to define processes and systems that allow your organization to quantify and demonstrate L&D impact, it's very likely that it will no longer be part of that conversation in the future.
Anne: Amazing insight today. Thank you both so much for sharing this incredible research. It really shows the urgency of these L&D programs and the need to evolve with the skills revolution we are seeing. And remember — stay ready, don't get ready. Right, Ashley?
Ashley Miller: Yes! I love it.
Anne: And be the squeaky wheel that gets the oil. Thank you both so much. This was a wonderful conversation, and thank you to our attendees as well.
Sally Windisch: If you enjoyed our conversation today, be sure to subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts so you never miss a new episode.
Anne: Also, did you know All Things Work is more than a podcast? We're also a weekly newsletter that includes in-depth articles and the latest research from SHRM to keep you in the know. Just head to SHRM.org/allthingswork to sign up. Plus, follow SHRM on social media to view the latest clips and join the conversation on game-changing topics that are redefining the world of work.