The World's First Chief Heart Officer Says: Be More Authentic at Work!

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Anne: Today's most impactful leaders are evolving. Good leaders drive results and set strategy, but great leaders create workplaces where people truly feel like they belong. In a world obsessed with chasing the next metric, app, or trend, it's easy to overlook the real catalyst for growth, which starts from within.

The most successful organizations are those where leaders bring empathy, optimism, and courage to the forefront, making genuine connection a competitive advantage. Today, we're chatting in-depth about this topic, and we've come all the way to Dallas for SHRM Talent 2026 (Talent 2026), where we're joined by a live studio audience today.

Everybody, give a round of applause for this. First time we're doing this. I love our energetic crowd today. So, we have a very special guest, who is a pioneer in the next wave of empathetic leadership. Claude Silver is the world's first chief heart officer at VaynerX, a champion of heart-first leadership, and the architect of a globally recognized culture of belonging and growth.

Welcome to All Things Work. Welcome, Claude. We're so happy to have you.

Claude Silver: Thank you. It's like a live studio audience. I feel like we're on a game show. This is really fun.

Anne: So Claude, you've said that the future of work does not belong to the loudest voice in the room. I know my voice is kinda loud right now, but who does it actually belong to?

Claude Silver: Yeah, the future of work belongs to all of us. It belongs to each and every one of us, and we have every right to take up space in the workplace, to bring ourselves to the workplace, whatever selves that means.

But we've been conditioned to feel that the loudest voice wins, or the person that interrupts us the most gets the win. It's all politics anyway, right? But it belongs to all of us, and I think that's what we need to really infuse our workplaces with right now. From my generation, Gen X, all the way down to Gen Alpha, take up space. Be big in the room.

Anne: So let's unpack this emotional fluency. What does it mean to be an empathetic leader, and what do those qualities look like in the individual?

Claude Silver: Yeah. Well, so it's subjective, right? There's a one-size-fits-all when it comes to emotional intelligence and the traits we all know that EQ embodies: empathy, gratitude, kindness, compassion, resilience, accountability, all of those things. Emotional fluency is actually the next step, which is how to speak your emotions. It's one thing to know, "I feel scared. I feel frustrated," right? But then what do you do? And this is all about relationship making.

We're at work, and we're making relationships constantly, like it or not, right? That's one of the things that I'm sure a lot of you can appreciate with the younger generations that we love. But I've noticed that a lot of times because they finish school on a screen, they come in, and they really don't know how to move and groove within an office setting. Even push their chair back in after you leave the conference room. But anyway, so helping them with skills in terms of how to create connection with one another is so key.

For an example, if someone interrupts me maybe three times in one meeting, I know I'm getting frustrated. What little Claude wants to do is just be like, "Are you kidding me?" Or what little Claude wants to do is shrink, which I've done quite a bit of as well. I've never done the "Are you kidding me?" I've shrunk, and I see people shrink all day.

But what emotional fluency teaches us, and it's not difficult, is then what do I do with that feeling? And what I will do, knowing what I know now, is I'll go talk to Bob or Sally afterwards and say, "Hey, I know you had the best of intent. I'm sure you didn't realize that you interrupted me three times, but..."

So that's what emotional fluency is. It's really the language of emotions. And I don't know about you, I'm gonna raise my hand. If anyone else is like me, I never learned how to speak my emotions. I mean, I never really learned that. And I feel like emotional fluency really for me is the next step after emotional intelligence. It's really, what now, right?

Anne: So you talked about the individual a little bit. What about the impact of empathetic leadership as a whole? Let's dive into that.

Claude Silver: Yeah. What's not the ROI? I get asked that question all the time. Like, "What's the ROI of kindness in the workplace? What's the ROI?" And it's like, okay, well, what's not the ROI? But I understand what our CFOs and people that write the checks are looking for, and we all know it's less absenteeism. It's quite frankly more happiness and joy. It's more retention, obviously, less attrition. It's more word of mouth referrals. Hopefully, it's more creativity, more innovation.

But when you take all of that together, it is a more joyful or collaborative place. The culture is made in micro moments, right? That's how we make culture. It's not in the big offsite or the kegger or whatever you do, the foosball. It's in the micro moments of seeing someone in the bathroom and being like, "Hey, I noticed on Instagram you got a puppy," right? And it's this and that.

And so helping the atmosphere, the energy to elevate, I think is all of our jobs. Listen, cynicism spreads. We already know that. Negativity, pessimism, that spreads fast. We need more optimism. And so I look at empathy and optimism as kind of kissing cousins. Empathy is, "I see you." Optimism is, "I believe in you." You put those two things together, and you have wildfire, right?

I see you. And I think about empathy in general, it doesn't have to be the workplace, as I'm not gonna take on your stuff. I'm no good to you if I merge with you, right? I know where I begin and end, but I'm gonna ride shotgun with you. I'm gonna be your passenger.

And the last thing I'll say about it is, because of course, we could have this conversation for three days straight, but empathy is a feeling. It's an emotion. The action of empathy is kindness and compassion, and we all learn that as children. And so what I'd like to do is figure out ways to bring more of that into the workplace, and in order to do that, you can't just wave a flag. People have to want it inside. So the work is internal. And the output is much more of an empathetic, kind, collaborative floor.

And it's contagious. Massively contagious, just like sneezes are. Or yawning. Attention, generosity, those things are contagious. And if you think about whatever empathy looks like for you, whatever your ball is of empathy, I am sure that generosity is in that ball, right? I'm sure that accountability is in that. I am sure that the growth mindset, the yes and, is in that as well.

Anne: So you've described empathy as a multiplier for speed, retention, innovation. You touched on retention a little bit, but can you break that down for us, what that looks like in a bigger picture?

Claude Silver: So again, going back to what I was just saying in terms of cynicism is loud, negativity is loud. For whatever reason, it just happens to be very loud, and that spreads across a floor very, very quickly. Sometimes it's hard to even figure out where it started. You just know it's over here someplace.

The same is true for kindness, compassion, and I'll use the word empathy. Empathy is a very overused word. I'm very aware of that also, so I'm careful sometimes of how I put it out there. But empathy, again, is being aware, if you're on empathetic leadership on a floor, being aware of others, being aware of the space that you inhabit, being aware of when you put your dishes in the dishwasher, or you leave them in the sink for someone else to do. I mean, there's all of these things that happen in a workplace, right?

Being aware and mindful of who you are and how you travel through your day and how other people might travel. I don't think empathy belongs just in the HR department, by the way. I think it's everyone, but it has to be in the water stream. It has to be in the water, not the Kool-Aid. Whatever you get out of that faucet or your water cooler, that's what we need more of right now. I believe in the workplace, especially while there are great concerns in the world, a lot of unknowns.

Anne: So do you have an example of, in your day-to-day work that you've experienced empathy from that leadership that really influenced you to provide an example for our audience?

Claude Silver: Yeah. I would say... I'm not sure if people know who my boss is. His name's Gary Vaynerchuk, and he's amazing, and I've been with him now 12 years. Anyway, about a year into my tenureship with VaynerMedia, I told Gary that I didn't wanna do advertising anymore. I was done with advertising. Thank you so much. This place is great. You're great. No, thank you.

And I had always been a two-year jumper, two and a half maybe, so I was ready. I was ready to see what's going on on the other side of the pasture. And I was surprised. He said to me in that moment, he said, "What is it that you wanna do?" And I said, "I only care about people. I care about the heartbeat of this place." Lot of conversations. Nine months later, we created this position.

The reason I bring this up isn't about the position. Yeah, the title is the best in rock and roll. It is. It's a great title. I believe we're all chief heart officers if we have a heart to help. But one day, he called me, and he said... He called me on the phone. I was walking the dog in Manhattan, and he just said, "I don't think you've ever had a boss that trusted you."

And he stopped me straight in my tracks, and I started crying. I really did. I started crying. I was coming out of the CVS, and he just got me like that. And he was right. I had never had a boss that truly trusted me or I could truly trust.

That is a prime example of empathy. He could tell that I wasn't totally bought in, right? I had questions. I had already told him. Even though I got this great job, but he was intuitive enough and also human enough to just not leave it at that, to go the extra mile and say, "Hey, I'm gonna be different." And you'll see. 12 years later, I can tell you that it has been incredibly different. I can't believe I've been there 12 years. And I mean, hopefully I have many more years in front of me.

Anne: It's very clear in your mind how impactful that was many years ago. So you break down leadership into three human skill sets: self, connection, and growth. So can you define these and explain why they are the hardest yet most important skills to master?

Claude Silver: Well, self, right? Nothing happens without us knowing ourselves, right? The only thing that happens not knowing ourselves is we're kind of like in crisis mode, quite frankly. We're just kind of like flying around with no grounding.

But why it's so important, self-awareness. I mean, you know that for sure. But without self-awareness, like I said, we're kind of like this kite flying in the air, nowhere to kind of land. When we have self-awareness and a softness or an understanding or compassion with ourselves rather than critical, that negative voice that wants to tell us the same thing on repeat over and over and over again, when we're able to either meet that voice in a way that's like, "Hey, voice, I'm so tired of you. You're not helping me out. I'm gonna put something else in this voice. I'm gonna put something else over here," which I talk about in the book. It's called the lie exercise.

But when we are able to be understanding with ourselves, we can be understanding with others. That is an enormous superpower to have. You can be more understanding with your spouse, your husband, the people you work with, whatever it is, and that is incredible. So I start with self. The book starts with self, just getting right. You're the CEO of you. You have all of the... You are entitled to get to know you and to get to be comfortable with you.

And then we go into growth. The growth is what happens when we finally do get to know ourselves and we decide that we wanna learn more. Might take a class. You might learn clairvoyancy. You might get curious. For the people that are my age, and there are maybe two in this room, I see, it's very, very rare that we get an opportunity to create a habit for ourselves or to give ourselves a gift as an adult, right?

So that's the whole part of the growth part, which is what do I wanna be now that I know I'm grown up? What do I wanna be now? Who do I wanna be? What do I wanna offer this world? How do I wanna parent? All of those things. You get a second chance, right? Once you get the understanding of who you are, which you'll continue to get for the rest of your life.

And then you put all of that into this minestrone soup, and you build connection. And connection can be very scary for people because there's an intimacy, lowercase I, that is required in connection, which is to say, "Hey, how are you? I see we're in the same group. Hey, what's going on? We both have the same thing on our badge," whatever.

But connection is what makes this world go round. It's the connective tissue that we all have because that connective tissue is laced with trust, and it's laced with belonging, and it's laced with courage, and it's laced with vulnerability, and it's a very, very sturdy quilt. It's a place where we can come together one-on-one, group and group, and support one another and grow together and enjoy one another. Connection.

Anne: And how about growth?

Claude Silver: Growth. Yeah. Well, growth has to go hand-in-hand because growth is an elixir. Motivation's an elixir. We all want to progress in life. Regardless if we are at the top of our career, we all wanna keep going somewhere, right? And so that is part of this optimism, which I call emotional optimism, to have a sense of optimism inside of you and to also be surrounded with people that see the possibility in you.

That all goes into this incredible soup for growth. We need people around us that see us, especially in those moments when we're down, that can help boost us up, right? One of the things I always say is we aim to elevate people, and Lord knows we all need some elevation, too, sometimes. So self, growth, connection, it's all like this infinity loop.

Anne: Now, you say feedback is about connection, not correction. I like that phrase, 'cause I think a lot of us kinda just don't wanna hear the feedback, or they don't wanna provide the feedback. It's just not a very comfortable situation to begin with, if we're being honest. So how can individuals really shift their mindset and approach feedback to make it more effective and less intimidating overall?

Claude Silver: Yeah. So when we talk about feedback, there's giving it, there's receiving it, there's writing it, right? There's all these different things that go into feedback, and we know that when this person says, "Hey, can I give you some feedback?" That person goes into flight, fight, flee most likely, or they're like, "Don't come close to me. You don't know me. You are not allowed in my domain," right?

And that's why I'm trying to turn it from a gut punch, a criticism, a I suck, 'cause that's what you walk away thinking, to, hey, if I spend enough time with the people on my team and connect with them as humans, they know that when I'm offering my subjective feedback to them, I'm coming because I want them to grow and I want them to thrive and I want them to be successful, not because I wanna pick this and that apart, because who am I to pick this and that apart anyway?

Feedback is so subjective, unless you're doing some kind of mathematical equation, which I wouldn't be a part of anyway, 'cause I suck at math. But quite frankly, connection. The more you connect, the more you spend time, the more you are human with others, I believe the easier it is to say, "You know what? I did notice on that PowerPoint presentation you had a lot of spelling mistakes, and I understand that 'cause I have spelling mistakes, too. Next time I really want you to proofread that three times over," or whatever it is, right?

And we also know that people are afraid that feedback is going to talk about my personality, which it should never. You could say to someone, "Listen, I've noticed that you're very cynical. Let's talk about that." But not like, "Hey, I notice you're a mean person," you know?

But it really goes back to what do we wanna create in this wonderful place called work where we spend so much time? And at the end of the day, you wanna leave feeling like you squeezed the orange as hard as you could. I worked. I worked today. I used my brain, and I also engaged with people. Maybe I had a good time. Maybe. That would be wonderful.

Anne: Who's hesitated to provide feedback based on how you think the other person would perceive that? When pretty much everybody's hands went up. There's a lot of people in the crowd today. So those steps that you provided, examples were really great to break it down.

Claude Silver: I think just to go on, I mean, I have definitely withheld feedback from people, and it is the worst feeling, especially if I know I'm gonna have to let them go later. And they have looked at me years past, and they've been like, "Why? But no one told me, you know, or you told me six months ago I was doing great."

I mean, I have myself created and coddled people and created entitlement because I was afraid. And talk about self-awareness, that's something I really had to look at pretty closely because I had to point the thumbs at myself. I was the one that had that conversation, right? Or I was the one that coached this person, HRBP, to have the conversation, and now they're like, "What do you mean? No one told me."

Anne: And you say those are the five habits of a heart-driven leader, right? And so which one of those habits do you think is the most challenging, and why is that?

Claude Silver: I think clarity and specifics are very difficult. Because most of the time when we are having these conversations, if we haven't practiced or haven't... If we don't have an agenda or a script for ourselves, we're winging it, and winging it can be a little wishy-washy when you are giving someone some kind of feedback on their performance.

I, for one, wing a lot of things, and I do not wing feedback any longer. Because people are gonna ask, they're gonna say, ask for examples, or they're gonna question. They have every right to question something, and I wanna make sure that I have it. So I think clarity and specifics are things that we really need to make sure that we're dotting our I's on and crossing our T's.

I do think kindness... For me, kindness is easy. Sometimes being clear and specific in those funky moments where it's like, "Oh, God, I'd rather do anything than be in this conversation." And I mean, that's coming from me, and I've had these conversations for almost 30 years.

Anne: So how can our audience start practicing these daily habits? 'Cause it really is supposed to be like a daily routine you're trying to get yourself into used to it.

Claude Silver: This is a fun question because each and every person in this audience knows how to get yourself right. For the most part, you know when you're grounded, and you know when you're not. I believe that, and I believe from this audience probably knows that.

So what do we go to work to do, especially in the world of HR and people, right? None of us came into this world to just stamp paper and just be compliance officers. We came into it most likely to be helpful, to facilitate growth and change, right? And so if that's your purpose, and if that's also aligned with the values or purpose of your workplace, well, then that's a win-win.

Then you're like, "I'm walking in. I know today I'm gonna bring it. I'm gonna be open to whatever kind of day comes my way, but I know that I'm gonna bring it, and I know that my job is supporting me because that's why we're here."

So our big vision at work is to create the single greatest human organization in the history of time. Okay, it's extremely aspirational, but at least I know the single greatest human organization. So we focus on the human, and so I know I'm in the right place.

If I continue to be of service without giving myself away, if I continue to be willing to help connect people to from so and so to so and so without losing my boundaries, then it's a win, you know? But our job, obviously, is to make sure we have our boundaries, and make sure if we're having a crummy moment or a crummy hour, take a walk, take time out. I think that's when you're like, "I shouldn't really be around human beings right now." Be kind to yourself first. Put the mask on. Put the mask on first.

Anne: So you emphasize a concept in empathetic leadership called the engine, which consists of three key ideas. Could you explain what those are?

Claude Silver: Break it down. So emotional optimism, emotional bravery, and emotional efficiency. We talked about the optimism for a minute. The reason I put emotional in front of all of these words is because we are emotional creatures. Like it or not, we are emotional creatures. We all have them.

Emotional optimism is in the midst of something yucky happening, or I got bad feedback, or something terrible happened. It is knowing that I have agency to change my behavior, to change how I'm gonna react to that situation, to come back tomorrow and say to my boss, "Hey, that was a hard conversation yesterday, but I'd really like to talk to you about those three points of feedback that you gave me," right?

It is really knowing, having belief and trust that you, either it's just you or with your support team, can see possibility after whatever has happened, and usually I'm talking about something not great that's happened, right? It's having agency. It's knowing that I'm accountable and I can speak up for myself.

Emotional bravery is actually taking that action. It's taking the step and saying to boss, "Hey, that was a really uncomfortable conversation. Do you think we can meet next week for 15 minutes? I can ask you a couple questions," right? It's literally shaking in your boots and still saying, "I'm gonna go forward with this. I'm gonna go forward with this. I'm not gonna stay stuck, and I'm not gonna shrink."

Everything I'm talking about here is so that we don't shrink, 'cause when we shrink, well, we usually will quit after that most of the time. So you can do this on teams also, right? So if emotional optimism on a team basically is bringing people together, not in toxic positivity at all, but in a belief that the sun will shine tomorrow and a belief that we lost that client, that doesn't mean that we stink. It means we're gonna now go after that next client.

Emotional bravery, knowing how to resolve conflict, not only with yourself and whomever, but learning how to do that, bringing that onto a team. Communication, really understanding how to have healthy communication, emotional fluency.

And then the emotional efficiency is the more I do this, the faster I get through the drama, the faster as a team we get through the drama, right? We don't have to have the conversation about the conversation about the conversation. It's the, "Okay, I see the way forward somewhere over there. The lights are... There's a path for me there." Bravery, taking accountability, knowing I'm a big person, speaking up for myself, taking those steps, and then efficiency, knowing that it just gets easier.

Anne: So many of us can relate to this. Sometimes we may feel that pressure to get small, to fit in at work, to go with the flow. But maybe, and I think a lot of us can relate to this, we really wanna show up more authentically, more like our authentic selves. We don't wanna feel like we're putting up that guard, as you said. So what advice would you give someone who just feels that pressure to fit in, but they don't want to?

Claude Silver: Yeah. Well, first and foremost, congratulations for not wanting to fit in. I understand wanting to belong. I really do. Fitting in for me is camouflage. Fitting in is not wanting to be an individual, but wanting to be accepted as part of the pack, which is different. I don't really like the word fitting in.

As a matter of fact, I changed the way we hired years and years ago from culture fit to skill set fit and culture addition. Because when I first joined Vayner, the floor was very same. It was very culture fit. It was very white male. It was very New England. It was very football heavy. And we needed to diversify the floor for the obvious reasons, and also we're an advertising agency. We're advertising to the macrocosm.

So back to your question. For that person that doesn't wanna fit in, bravo. That's what I say. If you're a zebra, be a zebra. Don't be a giraffe. However, of course you don't wanna be out on your own. You wanna be part of a team, and that's where it's going to require dipping your toe into the water and hoping that the team can greet you. Hoping.

And maybe that is in the team standup or in the whenever you get... Going for a coffee, taking a walk with someone. Saying like, "Does anyone... I'm new to this area. Does anyone know where I should go eat this weekend?" Whatever it is, there's so many things that we can do.

It's heavy. That backpack gets so heavy when you hide things about yourself. Obviously, there's some things I don't say because I just know where I am. But it is, the backpack gets real heavy, and I don't know about you, but I don't have the muscle anymore to carry that backpack. I don't want to.

So the gift is you feeling like, first of all, picking a place that has a culture that can embrace you, and you'll do that by asking a ton of questions in the interview process and all of that. And then meeting people where they are, and hopefully they'll meet you where they are, too, and it all works. It all can work. It takes a commitment.

Anne: I can feel everybody's shoulders going like this. Like they took the book bag off almost. You can exhale a little bit more. So finally, let's leave our audience with one actionable change they can make today, in the next 10 minutes, tomorrow, whenever they choose to do this, that will lead with empathy and not only impact their team, but impact that organization. What would that be that you would love for them to walk away with today?

Claude Silver: Yeah. I would say there are two things that come to my mind immediately. One, if you have a team, you're on a team, or you lead a team, I would get on the Slack right now or get on the Teams or whatever the modus operandi is and say, "Hey, I'm thinking about you all. Hope you're doing great. I'm at a great conference. I can't wait to tell you X, Y, and Z what I learned." Like, reach out and, "I miss you guys." It's Monday, right? That's easy. That's just human to human.

And then what I would say is here, check yourself. I always say check yourself. Now don't do anything that feels like completely out of who you are, and then just spend time with each other and get to know one another. It's the whole thing of why we said in the beginning, "Come closer." Come closer because we're together in this setting, and so whether or not it's due to the badges that you have on your name tag or whatever it is, just see if you can make a friend today.

Anne: Right. We're all here for the same reason, right? Claude, thank you so much for bringing heart to the conversation, not only just your empathy throughout this conversation, but just your actionable insights, what people can really start doing today. Thank you so much.

All right, that's it for this week. We'll catch you next time. If you enjoyed our conversation today, be sure to subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts so you never miss a new episode. Also, did you know All Things Work is more than a podcast? That's right, we're also a weekly newsletter that includes in-depth articles and the latest research from SHRM to keep you in the know. Just head to SHRM.org/allthingswork to sign up. Plus follow SHRM on social media to view the latest clips and join the conversation on game-changing topics that are redefining the world of work.