How to (Actually) Land That Job: Tips from a Seasoned Recruiter

This transcript has been generated by AI and may contain slight discrepancies from the audio or video recording.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: [00:00:00] So how do you stand out when you might be interviewed your first round by an AI bot that hap that happens now, depending on how much volume, uh, and hiring and the kinds of roles the company's hiring for. But I think, you know, ai, HRIS, they're using keyword searches, right? So if you're applying to a specific position.

Being able to tweak your resume every time you apply to a job.

Anne Sparaco: If you go job hunting in 2026, be prepared for this. The rules of recruitment are constantly changing. As a candidate, you'll be up against this algorithms, automations, and often confusing processes. But job seekers will also be putting employers under the microscope as well. In fact, SHRM's just released 2026.

State of the Workplace Research Report reveals 72% of HR professionals and executives acknowledge that [00:01:00] workers today have higher expectations for employers. Than in the past. Now it's important more than ever for job seekers to be strategic and informed. In this episode, we're talking about hurdles, job seekers encounter throughout the recruitment process, strategies on how to overcome them, how to master the interview process, and ultimately stand out as that star candidate.

So walk us through this conversation. We have Kristen Freeman Johnson. She's the regional director of Beacon Hill Staffing Group, and Kristen, welcome to All Things Work.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Thank you so much for having me, Ann. I'm excited to be here and we are chatting about one of my favorite topics. The perspective I can offer is I manage five different offices across the East coast for Beacon Health.

So we're a large national staffing firm. And, um, with that, not only are we representing hundreds of candidates on their job search during any given time. But I also have an insider look and perspective from the client side of things. So I'm [00:02:00] constantly hearing their feedback directly throughout the interview process, what's attracting them to certain resumes, um, and ultimately what's getting candidates an offer, and over the finish line.

Anne Sparaco: I mean, hey, that's why you're here. This is beautiful work. Thank you for breaking that down for us for maybe some people who may not know a lot about Beacon Hill Staffing. So that's wonderful to know. And I think this is a real passionate topic of mine. Uh, 'cause I think everybody. Tuning in can really relate to this.

Everybody's been through that process, no matter if they're an HR professional doing the recruitment part or if they are the employee going through that interview process. So let's get right into it by first understanding the Jobe Seeking Landscape Professionals will be facing in 2026. Let's start off with this.

What are some of the major challenges they will likely experience in the recruitment process this year?

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah, I think we're at an interesting time. I always sort of joke that I don't even know what a [00:03:00] normal job market is since 2019. We haven't really had something that's been consistent. Um, but I think certainly in the last year, um, you know, there are two to three times more applicants and more candidates applying to jobs than in years past.

So I think there's more competition right now than there has been in years. Um, also some things that are changing, I think a lot of companies are adopting more formal HR is systems. They are putting more steps in place in the process. So years past, maybe you could have gotten an offer After a couple of rounds of interviews, a quick application, and I think now companies are utilizing ai, they're utilizing, um, more steps in the process, like different assessments, cover letters.

So there's a lot more, uh, steps in the process now. There's longer interview cycles because of that. So, you know, um, a few years ago, could you have been offered a job within one to two weeks? A couple of interviews, [00:04:00] yes. And now we're seeing that life cycle take three to four weeks, if not longer, depending on the level of job that you're applying to candidate.

Anne Sparaco: And to take into consideration the labor market, as you mentioned, uh, SHRM does a lot of analysis on labor market trends, uh, through our thought leadership team. And they've been, you know, with the latest, one of the latest job numbers, uh, from November, they were saying that we saw the one of the highest unemployment rates at 4.6%.

And we're also seeing what. What we're seeing in the job candidate search and the job roles are an occupational mismatch. Uh, not everybody has the actual skills they need to fill the transformed roles, especially in wake of ai. And also, uh, we're seeing a lot of people. Uh, going through the interview process where they're not exactly maybe the best match for that role, um, because maybe they are making a career transition and it's just a whole different playing field for [00:05:00] 2026.

So how would you say all of this has changed just in the last two to three years, aside from what I just mentioned?

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah, I mean, all really great points, Anne. I think some of the biggest changes, you know. 2020. End of 20 21, 20 22, certainly. And into 2023, we saw what some people might argue as the best job market that we've had in our history.

And it was certainly a candidate market. So what that means is, you know, a couple of years ago we were seeing counter offers happening like we'd never seen before. We were seeing higher salaries, companies feeling more comfortable going above the salary bands to, uh, be able to hire the right candidate for the role.

Um, so salary ranges were certainly inflated like we hadn't seen in a long time. Um, they were expediting the interview process, so they weren't losing candidates in the competitive job market we had. You know, I was sending maybe two to three candidates to different positions versus five to [00:06:00] six, and companies were choosing them.

Um, we had companies slash you know, clients and companies who might have, um, conducted four or five interview rounds historically, a few years ago, they were only doing two. Just to expedite that process. So, um, you know, a lot of things have changed. You know, we're certainly in a, in a company market versus a candidate market right now, and that's been the case for probably the last year and a half.

Right. But I think there's some good in the hiring landscape right now. Also, I think companies are less, not all companies, but some companies are a little bit more flexible on degree in education. And allowing the experience to speak for itself. And it's been a long time since we've been in that place.

Um, I think there are companies obviously post COVID that have a little bit more flexibility in terms of remote or hybrid work. Um, we're seeing less fully remote jobs these days. And a lot of that [00:07:00] flexibility does come with trust and sort of tenure with the company. Um, but you know, it's not all to say, I mean, this job market is still really great.

It's just certainly changed over the last few years.

Anne Sparaco: Absolutely. And so, and. We, you mentioned AI playing a greater role in the recruitment process. Today we're all feeling it. We're all seeing it, and it's really changing it up. So what should candidates really be doing differently from the moment they apply to really help them stand out in that AI recruitment system?

You know, that may be more heavily automated.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah, I mean I think that's something that everyone's gonna continue to struggle with, right? So AI is, um, first I think can just be overwhelming. 'cause there's so many different facets. There's so many different tools. It's changing so rapidly and so we always recommend, you know, there are some things you can try to do to set yourself apart and still bring that human element to the interview process.

Um, but [00:08:00] I think it would be a disservice for candidates to not be taking advantage of some of the benefits that AI brings. Um, so a few things. So, you know, you really still need to stand out, right? I think, like I mentioned, there are two to three times the number of candidates applying to every job. So how do you stand out when you might be interviewed your first round by an AI bot that hap that happens now, depending on how much volume, uh, and hiring and the kinds of roles the company's hiring for, but I think, you know, ai, HRIS, they're using keyword searches, right?

So if you're applying to a specific position, being able to tweak your resume every time you apply to a job. Moving your bullets around, highlighting keywords that are on the job description that you can then put either on your resume or in the application. You know, bringing a human element and showing your personality a little bit if there's a cover letter required.

I think those can be [00:09:00] so rote and remote. Um, especially when people are using AI too much to write their cover letters. So I think bringing some personality to that is gonna be key. I recommend too, you know, we have LinkedIn, we have all these resources available to us. So do you have any common connections with someone who has worked at the company you're applying to, or someone who, um, is still there who you might know you might be able to engage with?

Um, or sort of get a little insight scoop on what it's like or what the interview process is like? The benefits of using AI to your advantage too. When you're applying to jobs, you can have AI tweak your resume, be careful with that. Um, sometimes it doesn't always, uh, correct things appropriately. You can have AI tweak, I think you note you can have AI tweak a cover letter.

You can have ai. I love this tool. When you're interviewing, you can copy and paste the job description into a chat GPT or whatever AI platform you're using and ask it to craft interview [00:10:00] questions around that. It can also help you craft interview questions for the company that you're interviewing with.

So I think there's some really good ways you can use AI to your advantage in the interview process. So don't let it scare you. I think. Kind of embracing AI and learning more about it is really gonna be helpful in as we're moving into 2026.

Anne Sparaco: Hey everyone. We'll get right back to the conversation in just a moment.

But first, SHR members tuning in today have access to exclusive new research titled Help Wanted Understanding the US Labor Shortage. This SHRM data brief dives deep into the persistent recruiting and retention challenges. Facing organizations of all sizes. It goes beyond pandemic disruptions to explore long-term drivers like population aging, and introduces new metrics that account for occupational mismatch, giving you a more nuanced view of labor, supply and demand.

Now, if you're watching on YouTube, just click the link above or check the [00:11:00] description for instant access. This is just one of the many advantages of being a HR member. Now, back to the episode. So from your perspective, what are some of those top characteristics of what, what you would say are successful candidates?

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah. You know, and I always tell people that like the interview process starts the moment you apply, right? So I think as a good candidate, you wanna be organized. I always recommend having an Excel or a Smartsheets or a Google Doc of all the jobs you're applying to. Because if you're actively on the job search, which is a full-time job in itself, um, you know, you might be applying to five, 10 plus jobs a day, which means by the end of the week you might have applied to 30, 40, 50 jobs.

So if you get a callback. You're gonna wanna know really quickly what company it was, what the job is, and at least a little bit so you're not scrambling. So I think being able to set yourself up for success, the moment you really start to engage in your own job search is gonna [00:12:00] be key. Um, and then I think it's how you present yourself throughout the process, right?

If somebody reaches out to a company you applied to, reaches out to you and shows interest and wants to schedule an interview, it's crafting a very professional, nice, well-written response. Being available, being responsive. You know, again, that that interview process starts the moment that the company reaches back out to you after you apply.

Um, I think whether you're interviewing in person or virtually, it's dressing the part, right? You wanna look polished, you wanna look put together. Um, you wanna be in a quiet place when you're interviewing. Um, you wanna be friendly. I think also having a good resume that's well crafted. I mean, a moment you apply to a job, you know, a lot of companies take 10 seconds or less to look through your resume.

A lot of companies are using AI or HRIS to. To funnel out even the first round of candidates and push them through to a next round. So, you know, you're, you're being really [00:13:00] thoughtful about your job search throughout the process. So try to set yourself up for success from the beginning. You know, I think too, it's being well researched when you get an interview, so you've got an interview request.

And you're starting the interview, look up who you're interviewing with. How long have you been with the company? Do you have like really specific, uh, questions prepared for each person you're interviewing with? Um, have you been thoughtful about the questions you're asking? Um, writing and following up with a nice note.

I think all of those things, but I think really it's, um, you know, the interview process starts the moment you apply and it's making sure you're being responsive, professional, double checking, thank you notes. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a candidate and misspell one of the interviewers names and a thank you note.

Yeah. Right. So it's, it's all the little details. So it's really being particular, taking that extra five minutes to. You know, read through something before you send it, I think is really gonna set you apart. [00:14:00] Also LinkedIn, um, making sure your LinkedIn profile really matches your resume, making sure you have a professional photo on your LinkedIn.

Also making sure you have a professional email address associated with your email when you're applying to jobs. So I think there's a lot of little things you can do to be setting yourself up for success throughout the process, and it's just showcasing that professionalism, um, and good communication skills and good responsiveness.

Anne Sparaco: Alright, so let's switch gears to zero in on the interview process. You know, after you apply, you finally get that magic call and you're in the interview. You got the interview and that's, oh God, the big one of the biggest hurdles is over. But now you got the whole next process, which can be nerve wracking.

So could you share some advice with our audience on how they can best prepare for that interview process? You mentioned obviously mock interviews, but. What are maybe the three to five most important things candidates can do to feel the most prepared?

Kristen Freeman Johnson: I think the first one is just like what we [00:15:00] were speaking to, just being prepared, right?

So, you know, how many times have you been in an interview and someone just sits down and says, tell me about yourself. You're immediately, like, what do they wanna know? So I think having your elevator pitch down and there's multiple elevator pitches, right? Like having a quick elevator pitch on yourself, your background that tell me about your self response, right?

So that you feel comfortable, but also having your elevator pitch at the company, right? How many times has the company said, if you were meeting, you know, if you were talking to a stranger and they ask you to describe SHRM or Beacon Hill, how would you do it in a couple minutes? So I think really understanding the company too.

Um, having a basic understanding of the job. You don't have to have all of the answers, right? That's what the interview process is for. But I think being prepared, um, having answers to standard interview questions in your back pocket, understanding behavioral interview questions and what those mean. Um, again, like you don't wanna sound rehearsed, but you wanna sound prepared and you wanna walk in there feeling [00:16:00] confident, um, because I think that just makes you a better candidate.

Um. Always have questions prepared. I always say have at least five or six, because inevitably throughout the process, a couple of those things are gonna get answered naturally. And so you never wanna be left at the end of the interview when the interviewer says, question time. Um, and you say. I don't have any.

Um, so always wanna make sure you have some questions prepared. And then I think always the follow up too, if someone's asking you to do an assessment as a next step. If someone's asking you to send their avail, your availability for another round as a next step. Um, always follow up with a thank you note within 24 hours.

Um, you know, an email is great. Um, my like standard rule of thumb is if it's on a panel, you can do one email address to two or three people. If you're meeting people back to back in 30 minute or hour increments, probably better to do those, um, separately. Um, but you know, it's the follow up, right? It's like that's what always gets people it's following up to ask if you hadn't heard about a job [00:17:00] in a couple of weeks or haven't heard about next steps.

Perfectly acceptable to follow up, but definitely thank you note and definitely making sure you're being responsive. Um, if there are future steps in the process.

Anne Sparaco: So I would say that there's definitely a balance to all of that. I know when I was through the process, I wanted to know so badly. I wanted to just, I was like, I'm so tempted.

I would purposely try to just distract myself to do something else to make sure I wasn't too anxious to. To email them right away. So I love that you made that point. So after preparing for the interview, let's say you're now getting ready to meet with a hiring manager, HR over Zoom or a phone call.

'cause like we said, it's a whole new world. We're meeting each other virtually instead of coming right into the office. So what are the top, must-have advice you'd give to job seekers to make that first impression during that interview, especially if it's virtually.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah, great questions. [00:18:00] I mean, I think the greatest advice I received, and I, we give this to all of our candidates, is like your job.

And if you're going in person, you know that interview starts the moment you walk in the building, building security, you never know who you're gonna be on the elevator with. Um, so I think always making sure that you are ready to go dress the part, saying hello. I used to ask our receptionist how an internal candidate presented themselves as an engaged with them once they got into the, into our suite, right?

Like, I wanna make sure people are being respectful, friendly, nice, warm, like those are the kinds of people we wanna be hiring. Um, so I think. Just recognizing that moment, dressing the part, whether you're virtual or in person, making sure you have a clean background, making sure if it's virtual from the waist, stop.

I always saying, just put a full suit on or just dress it up. 'cause then you just really feel like you're interviewing, um, you know, wanting to be engaged. Right? If you're in person, it's eye contact and virtual eye contact. It's, um, a [00:19:00] firm handshake. You're not breaking anyone's hand, but, you know, making sure you have a firm handshake, making sure you're smiling and, um, and being engaged.

Right. Sitting sort of upright, I think. Um, something else. I love it when a candidate comes to an interview with a notebook, with copies of their resume just in case. Um, they've got notes they ask, uh, if they can take notes during the process. I think it just shows a different level of engagement that you wanna see from people.

And then I think the really, another big piece of advice is, um, listen to what the interviewer's asking, right? Sometimes it's a multi-pronged question and you're so focused on the first one that you totally forget to answer the second part or forget what it is. And I think an, you were just mentioning this, you know, you might get tripped up like an interviewer might ask you a question that it really has you stumped.

I think instead of saying, um, um, and just panicking, it's perfectly okay to say that is such a good question. Do you mind if I just take a second and think about that? Like [00:20:00] that is so much better than giving a lot of ums or feeling like you're lost and flailing because it's hard to recover from those things.

So I think those are the things, right? And then obviously a good follow up, right follow up email. It's perfectly acceptable to ask about next steps once you wrap up that first round or second round. Um, and just making sure you're following up with a well crafted thank you note grammatically correct. Um, ideally you're mentioning something personal or something that was specific to your conversation with the interviewer.

And I think too, everyone loves to talk about themselves, so I think, you know, asking them specific questions, you've been at the company for eight years or I see this, you know, I think people appreciate that and it shows that you've done your research and that you're interested in the job.

Anne Sparaco: The job market is evolving faster than ever.

Are your talent strategies keeping pace? Join us in Dallas, Texas, April 19th until the 22nd at SHRM Talent 2026, [00:21:00] and dive into AI integration, essential skills development, and the future of work. Learn more at SHRM dot org slash talent 26 dash podcast.

And so, you know, it also comes down to culture, workplace culture.

And I think that's one of the toughest things job seekers are trying to figure out through the process. They're thinking, what is this place really like? 'cause I see the job description, but what do they do? What do they like inside and out? What's that culture feel like? So what are some key questions job seekers should be asking themselves?

In order to help clarify what matters most to them in that workplace culture.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah. Uh, another really great one, and I think this is a hard one to answer because everyone's buying cues are different. What matters to me in my job search might be totally different for you, Anne. So I think it's important for every job seeker [00:22:00] to sort of take inventory of their top three to five.

Is it benefits? Is it flexibility? Is it culture? Is it room for growth? Like whatever it might be. Make your list also being understanding that you're probably not checking off all those boxes, but at least you can understand your priorities and like what's important to you. You know, somebody might be okay taking a slightly lower salary if there's a 401k match, or if they can leave at four 30 every day to do pickup, right?

Like there's just different things and different things that people need. So I think understanding that. I think too, you know, people wanna work at a place where employees are happy. People wanna work at a place that is a good culture, whatever that means to you. So I always recommend, you know, look at LinkedIn, how long have people been at this company?

You know, if you're in the interview process, you can ask someone, um, you know, what's the, what's the office environment like, or what's the team like? You know, I think if you have the opportunity to interview in person, take it. That's such a good indicator [00:23:00] of what's the office like? Is it bustling? Is it busy?

Is everyone there? Is it quiet? Is it somber? Does it seem like there's two people working there at any given day? Um, and I think it's important, right? Some people don't need to make friends at work. Some people wanna just get the job done and move on. Some people wanna have buddies, so I think it's important to sort of see the space too, if that's something that's really important to you.

So I think in person interviews are certainly coming back around in a big way this year, and that's only gonna continue next year. So I think definitely in person and then looking people up on LinkedIn. Um, do you have any common connections? Is there anyone who you're connected with or a friend of a friend who maybe used to work there but doesn't like that?

Could be a great person to pick their brain on the good and the bad, right? There's, it's not all gonna be good. Um, but I think it, it helps you sort of open up the hood a little bit. If you have someone in your network who can connect you with somebody who's worked at the company or maybe worked for the CEO or worked for the president in the past.

Anne Sparaco: And if you went to college, I mean, don't underestimate [00:24:00] that alumni network. I, I, that's how I was able to learn more about SHRM. You know, somebody who went to the same college as I did. Uh, we were 20 years apart, but man, does she, was she kind enough to, uh, to answer my message and, and to connect with me?

And she told me all about SHRM. It sounded great. So it just gave me more confidence to move forward in the process, and it was wonderful. Alright, so let's move on to some common scenario. Job seekers might find themselves in. Some of us might have already found ourselves in these situations, and we'll get your take on, you know, what they can do next in these situations.

Awesome. So the job seeker gets asked why they left their most recent employer. I've heard this question a few times. The problem is their job ended on terms that may have not been that great. So how would the job seeker really explain this without, let's say bad mouthing that employer coming off? Poorly negative about it.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yep. This is a great one. And it's so hard to balance. It's like never, never, never bad mouth. Um, but I think it's [00:25:00] okay. Like not every job is gonna be a fit. So I think as long as you have your elevator pitch or whatever you wanna call it on why you moved on from a job or while you parted ways mutually, it's okay.

Like honesty is okay. I think there's within reason, and I think there's no need to expand on a 20 minute story about what went wrong. Um, I always like to highlight something you learned, right? Like this wasn't the best fit for this reason and that's why I'm excited about interviewing with you all. Yes.

Right. So I think it's trying to flip the script a little bit. Like it's okay. I was a consultant right out of college, like doing something totally different than I'm doing now. Not the job for me. And I learned so much, and so I can still speak to that experience so positively and knowing I'm so much happier in the place I should be now.

So I think it's okay. It's just how you approach it, but always try to spin it into a positive I.

Anne Sparaco: I, I definitely agree with that. I, I think when I was transitioning from [00:26:00] broadcast news over to media relations and other work like that, I interviewed for quite a few jobs. One of the question is saying, why do you wanna lead this industry?

Why do you wanna make this switch? And my answer always was, I love the work I do. I'm looking to change the environment I do it in. Yep. And that really focused on the fact that I still love my work. I still love what I do, and it's just a different lifestyle change for me. And. I had one interviewer say, wow, that was a better response than I was anticipating.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah, it's just how you approach it. You know, it's, you shouldn't, you should never be scared to talk about an experience maybe that didn't end positively.

Anne Sparaco: So, let's say another scenario in which the job seeker may have some gaps in their resumes. They may have been unemployed or in some scenarios they're apparent they had to take time off or they had to take care of an elderly loved one.

Um, you just never know what the reason is. I've had friends in this situation, so what's the most professional way to address this?

Kristen Freeman Johnson: [00:27:00] Again? Another good one, Anne. Um. I think that people, especially post COVID, are so much more accepting and understanding of gaps in ex gaps in resumes, and it can be anything taking care of a sick family member.

Maybe you stayed home to be home with small kiddos. You know, there's no right or wrong for why you took a little break. Some people just wanted to take a break. Um, I think that it helps to paint a story on your resume so you can address it on the resume. Which I think is perfectly fine. You know, you can address a layoff, you can address a, took time with family for a year or two years or however long.

Um, but I think it's also trying to highlight some of the things you did do. Right. Did you join a volunteer group? Did you do something productive that might not be on your resume, that might even contribute positively to this job you're interviewing for? So I think it's, you know, trying to expand and put things on your resume or at least be able to speak to things that might have, I mean, [00:28:00] not for nothing.

I think a lot of people would agree being at home with kids is sometimes harder than going to work. So, you know, it's like, what, what, what did you do? Maybe you volunteered at the school. So I think it's being able to highlight other things that you might have done, but don't be scared to have a gap on your resume.

A lot of those things are easily explained, and it's also about the level of confidence and comfort you're bringing to the conversation. If you sound uneasy about it, they're gonna, you know, the interview is gonna be uneasy about it.

Anne Sparaco: Exactly a lot of that with that confidence building part. And you also mentioned the real importance to get down to the details and ask yourself, what is the interviewer trying to get outta me with this question?

And that leads into the, I love that you brought that up already because it leads to our final scenario where if the interviewer asks, tell me about a project you worked on that you were most proud of. I like this question because it's, it gives you an opportunity to almost show off. So what is the [00:29:00] interviewer really looking for when they're asking this question?

And do you have any suggestions on how that job seeker can format that response to, you know, satisfy the, the interviewer's question, but also, you know, make them look really good?

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Yeah, it's great, right? So it's, this goes along with a lot of the behavioral style questions, right? It's not always about the answer to the question, it's how you get there.

So I think with these kinds of questions, a, they're looking to see what you consider important. They're looking to see what excites you, what you consider a win, what role you played. You know, they're also gonna suss out, are you proactive? Do you care about the work you're doing? Did you raise your hand to take this project on?

Or was it assigned to you? Right? Like all of those things go through initiative and your role and process. And also, are you just gonna be the person who's sitting on the sidelines and meetings? Are you gonna be the person who's contributing an idea and contributing value? So I think this is [00:30:00] twofold. You wanna make sure that whatever project you are.

Proud of in talking about, speaks to the work you'd be doing at this company, the job you're interviewing for, because I've also had candidates, I ask this question every time I've had candidates who light up about something that's so unrelated to the day-to-day of our job that I just know it's not a good fit.

And that's okay. So I think you wanna make sure that whatever you're talking about sort of speaks to the role you're interviewing for, but also you know that you took. It's like when you're interviewing for your first job out of undergrad and someone asks you what your role, what role you plan a group project, right?

Like people always wanna know those things, um, and sort of what level of involvement you had. So, I mean, that's usually it. It's the role you played, it's the initiative you took. It was a positive outcome. If there were issues, that's okay. Like be able to address those and how you overcame them and like what the end product was and [00:31:00] what the end goal was.

Anne Sparaco: Thank you so much Kristen, for bringing all of your insights. I know we could talk for days on this subject. We got got a lot of questions from our audience coming up soon, so thank you so much for joining us on all Things work and sharing your insights today.

Kristen Freeman Johnson: Thank you so much, Anna. It was really great chatting with you.

I really enjoyed it.

Anne Sparaco: It was a pleasure. All right, that's all for this week. We'll catch you next time.

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