Skills First: How to Stand Out Without a Degree

This transcript has been generated by AI and may contain slight discrepancies from the audio or video recording.

Anne: Many of us have been encouraged while growing up to follow that traditional, stable path. You graduate high school, get into a good college, and even earn a degree to land that steady, well-paid job. But lately, that mindset has really been shifting. More employers are realizing that a four-year degree isn't the only, or even the best, indicator of whether someone can succeed in a role. 

Now, there's a growing focus on skills—what people can do rather than just where they went to school. From IT to healthcare, manufacturing, and even marketing, employers are opening doors to candidates with alternative credentials, certifications, and equivalent experience. Many are rethinking how they actually write job descriptions, how they screen applicants, and are bringing in a new perspective when evaluating talent overall. 

So it's great progress, but it's not without its challenges. Job seekers without college degrees are still struggling to get noticed. Some hiring systems just haven't caught up yet, and it's not always easy to translate your skills on paper to help you stand out amongst other candidates. So how exactly can workers make the most of this changing landscape and highlight the experience and abilities that really, really matter? 

To help us answer that is our guest and top expert today, Kristin Delwo. She's got a long title because she does a lot of work here. She's the Executive Vice President of EBSCO Information Services, founder of EBSCO Ed, and a recognized leader in the movement towards skills-based hiring and competency-based education. 

We'll talk about what's driving this trend, where progress is happening, and how professionals without degrees can really position themselves for success in a world that's finally starting to value skills over pedigrees. So let's toss things over to Kristin. Welcome to All Things Work. We're so happy to have you. 

Kristin: Thanks for having me. 

Anne: It's really great. I'm excited to jump into this conversation because we know that this is impacting so many workers across the US. So let's start with the big picture. For decades, having that four-year degree has been seen as the default mode. Everybody just thinks that's what you have to do to get the good, stable, steady, well-paying job. And to our audience, let's keep in mind this isn't to say degrees are not important or required for some roles, so I want to make that point. 

So Kristin, why do you think there's been such a strong preference for, or even that bias toward, degrees in the past? 

Kristin: Well, there was a time where it was just easy. As human beings, we look for the easy path, and our demand was capped. There was enough supply coming out of those programs. It signaled or acted as a proxy for an individual's ability to commit to something, to complete something. 

But we also used to learn, earn, and retire. And now we learn and we earn, and we learn and we earn. Most folks change careers several times throughout their lifetime, whereas that wasn't always the case. If we go back some years, we came up and we chose a profession at the point that we chose that formal education, and that's really what we stuck with. So, times are changing, but it definitely comes down to just being the easy path at the time that was meeting the demand. 

Anne: It was kind of like a safety net. It was that guarantee from employers that if you got the degree, you're most likely to land that job. So it was that kind of safety cushion. Just make sure you have this, kind of deal. So let's fast forward to today. I want to touch on some SHRM Foundation research. 

They released a report, and it's a long title, just like yours, Kristin. The report is titled, "Skills First at Work: Assessing the Effectiveness of a Skills-Based Hiring Education and Technical Assistance Program for Employers." Now, it's a big title because it's a big report here. The research evaluates how varying levels of education and technical assistance can help employers effectively implement skills-based hiring practices and suggests continued movement towards skills-based hiring among employers. 

Could you describe other factors that may be driving this shift in prioritizing skills and credentials over that formal four-year degree, five-year degree education? 

Kristin: Well, I think it's definitely a demand factor at the root of it. We need more workers. We've got boomers settling out of their roles. They're retiring, so we've got more demand than maybe the schools are putting out. And it's not as direct a path. 

There's a competitive factor here too, and while a degree may signal some reliability, some consistency in what the individual knows and can do, they may not be the fastest learners. They may not be the most adaptable workers. And they may not bring all of the perspective that we're looking to keep up with. All industries are moving very fast, technology is evolving very fast, and so we're needing to learn a little bit faster than a four-year curriculum. 

Anne: That's a really great point to make and also for people, this might not be the path that's best for them. I think a lot of us can relate to this. Some people might not be the best test takers, but they can explain the mathematical equation, or they can explain the history that they learned through the book and present it beautifully. But once they start to take a test, maybe that anxiety takes over and they don't do well, even though they know the material. 

I think that's just always just like one way is not the best for everybody. And I think that's important to keep in mind here because some people do thrive in that educational four-year degree setting. So I want to dig deeper, because we talked about alternative credentials here and we mentioned that, but can you take us through which ones are really starting to carry weight with employers that you've been seeing? 

Kristin: So employers really value brands and experiences they can trust and that they're familiar with. There's a ton of curriculum coming out from startup-type vendors, and that's a tough space for them to be in because employers are looking for names and brands that they recognize. They're looking for association endorsement of particular programs. 

And certainly, there are a lot of technical certifications right now that are really either necessary to be on a job site or necessary to complete a particular task for some liability purpose. But very much, programming that is specific to the role. We used to think about everyone as a craftsman. If you went to be a plumber, you really thought about everything to do with plumbing and how you might design an entire house from the ground up or an entire facility. 

Truth is, in today's world with modern manufacturing and technology where it is, very few roles are craftsmen, where it's from inception to completion. And so the reality is I don't need all of those skills to be the ultimate craftsman in a particular field like I might have 30 or 40 years ago. I really only need these specific skills that fit the role that I play in a larger team that is often augmented with non-human capacity. So, I think it depends on the sector what we're looking at, but think about things that are required to be on a job site, required to complete a task, or required very specifically for a given role in a given context. 

Anne: Right, right. And for skills-based hiring, like we said, we've been seeing more employers kind of adopt this mindset. So from your vantage point, how widespread is this trend right now? Are we seeing this more across industries, or are we seeing it more concentrated in very certain types of work? 

Kristin: So it's across all industries and sectors. It really comes down to an employer's need to achieve compliance and where that lies and where there's some liability or legal reason. As a large employer, we employ thousands of folks and we've removed it anywhere we can where there isn't a liability factor. 

So we can think about, I might need a doctor to review this particular copy. I might need a lawyer or a proper accountant to facilitate a certain activity. However, not everyone on that team needs to carry that formal certification. And so, even in an industrial context, if I'm a welding shop who wants to build a pipeline, well, in order to be certified for that pipeline's insurance, I need a certain welding certification, which means that I need a certain volume of ticketed welding journeymen in order to oversee that work. 

Anne: Hey everyone. We'll get right back into the conversation, but first, for SHRM members tuning into this episode, we have an exclusive bonus: a comprehensive toolkit designed to help you transform your organization's talent acquisition strategy to skills-first hiring. This online resource guides you through that process, from developing skills-based job descriptions and screening methods to conducting effective skills assessments and interviews. 

You'll also find sample templates and checklists to streamline your workflow, plus information about the SHRM Foundation Center for a Skills-First Future. If you're watching on YouTube, just click the link above to get instant access or find the link in this episode's description. The toolkit is just one of the many advantages of being a SHRM member, so be sure to make the most of this valuable resource. Now, back to the episode. 

Let's get into some practical advice here. For people looking to translate their skills, what is the best way to highlight their skills and experience so they can really stand out and remain competitive to employers? 

Kristin: In huge demand right now across employers are what we call durable skills. We used to call them soft skills. So we think about those skills that transcend sectors and industries and experiences. You've got critical thinking. You're good at root cause analysis. You know, how do I establish what I am working with and what needs to happen here. 

Those durable skills are largely what employers are looking for to set even credentialed candidates apart. If I had a couple of candidates with degrees and I had to decide which one, an employer is often going to choose the one with the stronger durable skills, or at least the candidate who acknowledges the value of those durable skills. America Succeeds has a really great framework that anyone can take a look at and really understand what those are and what vocabulary employers are looking for. 

When we're talking about a traditional resume, half our challenge is time and the employer's time to review the resume. So we tell everybody, keep it to one or two pages, really focus on the core stuff. The challenge is in today's world, we're all very complex individuals with rich skill sets and experiences under our belt that add context to those skills. 

You and I might have, on paper, a 65% skill overlap, yet the way you apply those skills and the way I apply those skills professionally is quite different, and therefore they manifest as something quite different, even though on paper we may look very similar. And so if you focus on articulating the outcome or the impact that you had in a particular role and swing that to evidence where you're trying to go, focus on the next opportunity that you're looking to chase. Focus on the things that you think those outcomes or impacts transcend those spaces. 

Anne: I love that you brought that up because, Kristin, I'm going to be honest here, I'm going to get very real. I absolutely hate writing my resume. And the reason I hate it is because I have so much more to offer than what I can fit. I literally use Canva so I can squeeze as much onto a page or two. I don't like doing two-page resumes; I like my one-pager. But it's just so hard to translate everything I do. 

Especially in my last few jobs, I did so many different positions, I've had so many different successes that I would love to get across on paper. But in the news world that I worked in for several years, we didn't just actually have a resume. We had what we called a news reel, which were clips of our segments that we worked on that we were most proud of, so that a news director or a boss could really see our work beyond the paper. So I love that you brought that up. I think a lot of us can relate to that a lot. 

And you kind of touched on this a little bit about how AI can get in the way here, especially if we don't train it correctly within our own organization. That comes down to not just the resume, but also the application you're filling out online. Many online applications still ask for that degree, or they automatically screen out candidates who may not have one listed. And again, those are often through AI tools. So you touched on this a little bit. I would love to dig a little deeper. How can job seekers get past this digital roadblock that might make them just not be able to show everything that they want to show? 

Kristin: Yeah, digital or virtual hiring has made things much more difficult than it was some years ago where you could walk in and talk to a person and really leave an impression. I would be wildly surprised if an AI tool was actually screening out based on a degree because that is an algorithmic technical yes or no. So HR systems, ATSs, that are filtering out for degrees, it's just a hard requirement on the job, and that's an employer choice. 

And we've got to give employers bigger data and bigger tools that can do a better job of matching and bringing them the right candidates before they can really, in earnest, remove all of those. It's definitely trending, but employers have nothing to replace it with. There is no equivalent data that they can use in place of that data. I posted a job the other day and got 2,000 applicants in two hours. I can't talk to all those people. There are not enough hours in a day. 

And so we're at a place where collecting your data in a learning and employment record allows you to capture things like that newsreel, allows you to include evidence that an AI-based system really could process. Now, do the commercial off-the-shelf ATSs and HRIS systems and their AI algorithms have this data today? No, because we're not creating it ourselves. We're not putting it out in the world and therefore it's not available to consume. All we're giving it is our application or our resume. 

But we're definitely acknowledging the demand, seeing the demand, and it's on us as individuals to create those learning and employment records, collect that evidence, use the vernacular and the vocabulary that's going to align to those job posts, and then it's fair for us to expect the AI to leverage that data. If we look at the skills that come out of an apprenticeship or even an associate degree program, there could be hundreds if not thousands of skills that are acquired through that programming. 

Think of any of the jobs that you've had, those experiences you've had. How many hundreds of things did you learn how to do in each of those roles? You can't fit that all on one page, but the AI can read it in a split second. So if we actually take the time to create that data, there's potential here for AI to add value. But right now it's making assumptions based on one sentence or one phrase in your resume that says that you could do all of these things. And then the reality is, I get the applications, and I'm like, there's nothing here that aligns. You've assumed that this means that, but bedside manner between a nurse and a veterinarian is not the same thing. Right now, AI has no option but to take the words at face value. 

Anne: Let's jump into our next segment. I love to break down how professionals in a couple of different roles can actually work through translating their amazing experience into skills that could open up new doors for them. Okay, so our first scenario: someone without a college degree who's been working in retail for several years but wants to move into a higher-paying office or customer success role. How could this person start identifying their skills that they already have in their hands to translate to that type of opportunity? 

Kristin: Sure. So that durable skills framework I spoke to earlier from America Succeeds is a really great place to start to begin self-assessing. What skills do you have that translate across sectors, industries, opportunities? Because in retail, you can think of yourself really as a customer. You've got someone coming in, whether they're coming in to buy a new TV for their facility, they're coming in to buy new dresses for an event. But they're coming in and they're looking for success in their customer experience. 

In an interview setting like that, you may use examples. So I may say I've got great root cause analysis skills. An example: last week I had this woman come in and she was wildly frustrated. She couldn't find what she wanted. She'd been to three stores, and here's how I worked through understanding her challenge, understanding where her mindset was, and how I got her to leave the store happy with her problem solved. 

At the end of the day, whether we're implementing software or a product or whatever that customer success role might look like, it's about your people skills. Are you able to read those people, calm those people, help them see a path to a solution, help them achieve that solution? And examples go a really long way in illustrating how those skills apply and make it feel real in the moment and build trust with that interviewer. 

Anne: Storytelling is such a big part of communication and I love that you brought that up. So the second scenario we have is someone without a college degree who works in a hands-on trade, say an automotive technician, and this person is ready to take on more leadership or planning responsibilities. How might they frame their day-to-day work as skills employers recognize as management potential? This is what I'm really curious about to hear your take. 

Kristin: Sure. Well, I've been in management roles largely since I was very young in my career. And the reality is you end up doing the role of a leader. A true leader is a leader without the designation. And so as you look to move up in the ranks, you tend to take on that role if that's something you're interested in, you're going to do that. 

So look for examples in your day-to-day where you are perhaps training others or being trusted with assisting with things like scheduling or forecasting. If you're that employee that other employees look to or that your management looks to you to assist in those things, those become great examples to illustrate. You can say, "Look, I'm taking this initiative, I'm driving this forward. We've improved this process." You don't need to be told to do that in order to have that kind of impact in an organization and to highlight that impact within an organization. 

I personally have never been in a role for three months before somebody was like, "Gee, you really should be a manager." Why? Because leaders naturally take that ability. But you have to be able to sell yourself. Particularly in the skilled trades, those folks don't have to sell themselves too often; that work output tends to speak for itself. And so if you really want to move up the ranks that way, you not only need to be able to take that initiative and put it in action, but you need to be able to articulate what you did there. 

Anne: Really, and for that little boost of confidence for our audience, just remember a college degree does not guarantee or really teach you the leadership skills that you develop on the job, in the experience, and the personal touch that you bring in your day-to-day examples. So trust your gut with the work that you know you've been doing. 

Right. So for our next segment, let's do some mock interview role-play where you are a professional without a college degree, and I'm the hiring manager interviewing you for that new job that you're interested in. So you are a retail worker interviewing for a role at a tech company. I say as the manager, "I see you don't have a four-year degree. Why should I hire you over someone else who does?" How would you exactly answer that, Kristin? 

Kristin: Oh, I'd probably dig right into that example I was alluding to earlier about that woman last week that I dealt with and highlight how those years of experience working with people has really prepared me for this customer success role where I've got the field experience. And use those examples—that storytelling is so important. 

Anne: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for walking us through that, Kristin. So each week we ask our newsletter subscribers to submit questions for an upcoming episode, and we have some great ones for you today. So let's jump into that. And for our audience tuning in today, be sure you're subscribed. You'll find the signup link in our episode description, and your responses to our question of the week could be featured in an upcoming episode. So, ready to jump into a couple questions, Kristin? 

Kristin: Sure. 

Anne: Awesome. So Danielle from New Jersey, she asked, "I read something recently that described certain education requirements as the last great legal discriminator. It's important for hiring committees to determine which skills must be learned through formal education and which can be taught through experience. How can someone with 10 years of experience doing the job be less qualified than a person who read about it in school? When is an education requirement a necessity, and at what point does it just become a way to weed people out?" 

Kristin: Well, it all comes down to liability, legal requirements, or business certifications in order to qualify for certain jobs that the company may acquire, certain contracts. And so, generally speaking, we see across industries and sectors, employers removing it wherever they can. Typically, you only need some of those certifications on a team. Not the entire team needs to be certified that way. 

Anne: So we have another question. And last one, Jacqueline from Oregon. She asked, "Do you have some advice for how I can leverage my professional network and referrals to showcase and vouch for my abilities in a skills-forward way?" This is such a great question. 

Kristin: Well, sure. It depends what professional network we're talking about. If we're talking white-collar or blue-collar, that kind of changes the environments that are available to us to make the internet that really illustrates who we are and where folks go to validate those things. 

So if your professional network is on LinkedIn, LinkedIn's a great place to have others give you an endorsement and create that evidence of that endorsement, letters of recommendation. A referral can be great, but at the end of the day, word of mouth is king and those professional referrals really do open doors for you. 

Our company, EBSCO Ed, in 2026 is actually going to launch a platform that is a little more skills-based and a little more broad in terms of where those professional networks are and how you can create those digital verifiable credentials that are those endorsements from employers, supervisors, colleagues, customers. And create that machine-readable data that the AI will be able to consume and utilize without that human intervention having to actually read through this content. 

Anne: I want to have a little fun to finalize our segment here today and think about coming together on Trivia Tuesday with your friends at your local restaurant or bar. This is our way of getting you guys to listen to us or watch us on a Tuesday afternoon. So for our last segment, we are going to do some fun trivia. I'll share a couple of well-known, successful, maybe celebrity people. Only one of them has a college degree, and Kristin, you're going to guess which one it is. 

So let's go with some big billionaire celebrities. We're going big or we're going home here. So we got three of them. We have Rihanna, who we know is the singer, songwriter, and creator of Fenty. We got Taylor Swift, singer-songwriter and huge public figure. And we also have Kylie Jenner, reality star and creator of Kylie Cosmetics. All very successful women. So tell me, which one has that college degree? 

Kristin: I am going to guess Rihanna. 

Anne: You know, I guessed Rihanna too, but it's actually a bit of a trick question. Taylor Swift received an honorary Doctorate of Fine Arts from New York University, so technically not an official degree. She didn't go through a formal doctorate program there, but it's close enough here in this situation. 

So we'll do one more. This is more on the company side, billionaire business leaders, very successful people. A lot of people know Sara Blakely. She's the founder of Spanx women's shapewear. She talks a lot too. And we all know the name Bill Gates. He's the co-founder of Microsoft. And of course, Steve Jobs, the co-founder of Apple. Which one has the degree? 

Kristin: Oh, let's go Sara. 

Anne: Ding, ding, ding. You are correct. You win this Trivia Tuesday, I guess if we're listening on a Tuesday. Okay, so Sara Blakely, she does have a bachelor's degree in communications from Florida State University. Surprisingly, the other ones just don't, but they've been a big success because they have a lot of those skills. Well, thank you so much, Kristen, for sharing your insights and thank you for playing that fun game. That was really interesting. There was one that actually surprised me, so we learned so much and we really appreciate your practical advice for workers trying to keep that competitive edge as well. 

Kristin: Awesome. Thanks for having me. 

Anne: Oh, great having you. All right. That's all for this week. We'll catch you next time.