The New Rules of Recruitment: From Posting Jobs to Building Pipelines

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Nicole Belyna: Posting a job online and hoping the right person applies used to be the best course of action for HR Pros. But in today's market where talent moves fast and competition is fierce, HR teams can't afford to just post and wait. Welcome to Honest HR, where we turn the real issues facing today's HR departments into honest conversations with actionable insights.

I'm your host, Nicole Belyna. Let's get honest. Recruiting outside the job board isn't just a creative exercise anymore. It's a strategic advantage. Today we're helping you expand your hiring efforts through smarter sourcing strategies, creative recruiting channels, and proactive hiring. Joining us is Tim Sackett, CEO of HRutech.com, and SHRM contributor.

Welcome to Honest HR Tim.

Tim Sackett: Nicole. Thanks for having me.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, I'm super excited to have you. So I'll dig right in. Recent SHRM data reveals persistent labor market frictions with about thirty-three % of job openings in July 2025 unable to be filled by unemployed individuals from the same job group and about twenty-seven % of unemployed individuals unable to match with the jobs in their field.

So when you hear statistics like that where so many open roles and available workers still aren't connecting, what does that tell you about the recruiting landscape and how it's changed in the last few years?

Tim Sackett: You would like to say it's changed a lot, but really we still have this misalignment. I mean, it's gotten a little better partly because you have fewer jobs, so people take jobs maybe they don't really want. But at the end of the day it's really hard to have an educational system and the job economy kind of always align with each other, which is almost like we're trying to play catch up on the educational skills side of this.

To where the jobs are and the jobs and the technology seem to move faster than what we can reskill workers for. And so we're always gonna have this little bit of misalignment there.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Really good points. And do you see any limitations or blind spots that come with relying on job boards? I feel like this is a pretty big question.

Tim Sackett: Yeah. I mean, and I know we'll probably get to dig in and talk about what were the better ways to do this, but you do have this kind of weird sense of like, oh, I should just be applying for jobs, applying for jobs, applying for jobs, and that's what job boards are good at. And they've conditioned us to do this. I mean, if you go back all the way to CareerBuilder and Monster and then Indeed and LinkedIn, we've literally taught candidates from birth, like, here's how you get a job.

In reality, we don't really get jobs that way. Right. I mean, we do. Some people still do. I mean, you obviously have to apply. There's also the networking and the alumni databases and all this other stuff that we kind of figure out ways to kind of align with jobs that are open with people that are hiring and not necessarily the job boards are great.

And then if we throw AI in there, most organizations and companies, especially in the ATS world, are showing double the amount of applies year over year. So a company might have a hundred people apply last year. They're having two to two hundred fifty people apply this year. Job boards made it so easy for people to apply. It actually adds friction and difficulty to the people trying to hire.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Well, and I've seen lots of LinkedIn posts. I'm sure you have too where people will say, I've applied to hundreds, thousands of jobs and no responses. Or, you know, I've applied to a thousand jobs and maybe I got a handful of responses. And so obviously relying on job boards, whether you're a job seeker or a TA team or an HR team, probably isn't the best way to go about making the perfect match.

Tim Sackett: I mean, the audience is gonna know this because we're kind of inside baseball, right? We're all kind of in HR recruiting, like around the periphery. We've been around it enough that we know. Most people don't, right? So they don't know what really happens when you have, I talked to a head of HR the other day with a company. They're averaging seven hundred fifty applies per position.

If you have seven hundred fifty people apply, here's what really happens. A recruiter or an HR person will look at maybe twenty-five of those applications, right? So seven hundred twenty-five people immediately never even got looked at. They'll go through the twenty-five, they'll find a couple good ones. They'll screen them, they'll send them onto the hiring manager and say, Hey, here's the best. They're not the best, they're the best of those they looked at. But seven hundred twenty-five didn't even get a sniff. And so this black hole has gotten bigger, not smaller.

When in reality with all the tech we have, we shouldn't have black holes anymore for candidates. And yet it just got bigger and bigger.

Nicole Belyna: Really good points. So how can HR professionals identify where those ideal candidates actually spend time? Whether that's, you know, as you mentioned, online communities, events, you know, is it niche industry spaces? What do you think?

Tim Sackett: I still love the referral, you know, for the good and bad of getting employee referrals and knowing where they're from. If I know, I just hired a great software engineer from a company across town. There's a good likelihood that that really great software engineer is gonna know another really good software engineer. And maybe I should start there.

Or if I know we hired an accountant from a really great company in town, maybe that accountant person knows other really great, talented people they worked with that are outside of accounting, right? And so it's this constant look of how do the people that we know that are good at doing good work for us. Do they know other good people? Right? Good people like to work with good people.

And how do we actually go through the referral process and the networking within our own community that we know of that are really high performing people and see what referrals they have. For the most part, referrals tend to actually perform really well because if I went to Nicole and you referred somebody to me. You feel like pressure, right? You're not gonna refer somebody that's terrible 'cause it's gonna look bad on me. We tend to refer people who are pretty good, and so there's a little bit of a myth around the referral thing.

We tend to think, oh, well Tim's just gonna refer his cousin or his brother or whatever. Well, if they're good I will, but if they're awful, I'm not going to. I don't want that on my back, you know?

Nicole Belyna: Well, yeah, and I mean, HR teams can protect against that too, right? I mean, if you give me a referral, obviously, you know, I think highly of you, I will of course screen that candidate, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to change the interview process or bypass the interview process. Or at least I shouldn't.

Tim Sackett: No, you shouldn't. That's the thought. Yeah. Yeah. If we have a really good hiring process and you still go through it, it should eliminate all those kind of false positives on referrals.

Nicole Belyna: So many small organizations do struggle to compete with enterprise brands in hiring. What are some innovative low-cost approaches that smaller HR teams can take to highlight their company culture and attract their talent organically? You have any suggestions?

Tim Sackett: Yeah, I still think social media for a lot of smaller companies is kind of this secret sauce of being able to compete. 'Cause a lot of big brands, even though they have all the budgets and all the money, they also have to be very kind of vanilla and whitewash when it comes to actually doing stuff on social media. They're very brand conscious, right? So they're very cautious.

If you have, if you're an SMB in a local market, I'll take myself, I'm in Lansing, Michigan. If I'm a manufacturing company with one hundred fifty people, I can probably go out there and be a little aggressive on social media and kind of push our voice and our culture. Because no one knows our brand regardless. It's like, what's the chances of us doing something that's gonna get us canceled in this world are pretty small.

Now, if a big company like GM or Marriott or someone like that, Walmart, they have so much to lose and risk. And so we can go out there and really kind of leverage social media as smaller companies to do that really well.

Part of that though is also using really micro video. Think about how, I don't know how you are, Nicole, but when a friend comes to me now and says, oh my gosh, I saw this thing today. I'm always like, okay, was it TikTok Instagram reels? Like, what do you mean? It's coming from some micro video that they learned something, which is cool, it's entertaining, but we have to be able to do that same kind of micro video in our kind of job advertising, employment branding.

And again, as a small employer, we can get out there and do that pretty quick. It doesn't have to be fancy, it doesn't have to be a lot of money. You can just find somebody that, you know, maybe it's a younger person on your team that gravitates towards that, loves doing that kind of stuff. Cool. Let's go talk to the hiring manager. Let's get them out there on social and figure out how we attract more talent.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, and you're right, smaller organizations can be a little bolder. They can be a little quirkier, they can be a little more, yes. You know, they're nimble. Yeah. Yeah, nimble. And I do think that as Americans, we still kind of root for the underdog, right? So when you can tell this kind of small business, scrappy story. You know, I think about, there's a microbrewery, you know, not far from my home that does some really great social media storytelling, particularly when they're hiring. They always do these kind of fun videos. It's like, yeah, I mean, if I were a beer brewer or whatever you call it, I'd be like, yeah, I wanna work there. Right.

Tim Sackett: For years I used to do this study. Michigan State University is really close to where I work, so it's like a mile and a half away. It's huge. It's one of the big, it's like forty thousand plus undergrad students, right? So it's one of the top twenty biggest universities.

And we had these major employers around the city and I would go and we'd do this kind of thing. So here's these students right here, and we would go survey them and say, okay, who are the top employers of Lansing, Michigan? They would never get the top employers, they would get all the national brands. It'd be like Starbucks was always in the top five. There was actually two Starbucks in the entire city. I mean like why would Starbucks be the best of forty thousand students? How could that be? Right?

And it just showed how important it is even for local market, small market companies. To really get out there and 'cause we just assume, oh my gosh, this is a great place to work and I love working here and the president loves working here and blah, blah blah. And so everybody must know, no, nobody knows you. Nobody knows who you are. You still have to get out in our own markets and tell people we're a great place to work and here's where you should come work for us.

Nicole Belyna: Yep. So I mean, we all know LinkedIn is a powerhouse for networking, hiring, showcasing your professional identity. Have you seen any kind of unconventional methods similar to what we've already been talking about where some of these organizations are using LinkedIn to source talent more creatively?

Tim Sackett: You know, the best one I do, and it really has. I mean, it has to do with LinkedIn, but it has to do more with leveraging, again, the networks of the individuals that you have that we don't, I call them micro sprints, like micro sourcing sprints, where I have a hiring manager. They might have let's say seven, eight, ten people on their team. I'm gonna pull them into a conference room.

You're gonna bring your laptop, your phone, whatever it might be, and you're like, Hey everybody, jump on LinkedIn right now and let's find out. Here's the position we have open. And who do we know that potentially could fill this? Now who's looking now? Who's interested? Just who do we know? And you tend to leave there with ten or fifteen names and emails and phone numbers and wherever.

And now I can go do some real work. And it is leveraging the power of we all have this network, professional network thing in our hands now or right at the tip of our fingers. But even if you don't, let's say it's a non white collar job. Let's say it's a blue collar job, same thing. We all have a mobile phone and we bring people in and we're like, okay, look on your Facebook or look on your Instagram or whatever. Who do you know that could actually do this job? And I'll contact them, right? I'll reach out to them.

It takes ten or fifteen minutes. I always kind of prep the hiring manager to be the first one to talk or to add, ask like, oh my gosh, I know somebody, right? Because then it starts to roll and the people start to add. If it's the HR person or the TA person that's doing it, they all kind of tend to just look at you and wait. And it's like, no, I need the hiring manager to own this.

The other cool thing that happens in that culture of that is that the hiring managers and the team go, oh. So we actually are in charge of actually filling the talent on our team. We have some responsibility for this. Yep. And when that culture starts to happen and that flywheel starts to happen, all of a sudden, you don't even have to look for people anymore. They're coming to you with people going, Hey, I know we have this opening and last time we filled it with Mary this time, I know this person, Frank. That would be really good. And it just has this culture of, it's our job as a company to find talent, not some individual in HR.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, you're right. I mean, that is, I think that's a reminder that hiring teams have to share with hiring managers on a regular basis, which is, Hey, you know, this is a team sport here. We need everybody's participation to get the best results.

Tim Sackett: I always share this analogy of if we say it's around the holidays and so we had a holiday party, we took the HR team out. We're in a big van. It gets hit by a train. We all die, right? I said. The company will mourn us and then the next day some hiring manager's gonna go like, Hey, I have to hire somebody, and they'll figure it out without us, right?

They're gonna figure out how to hire somebody and so we can be a conduit to help them and make it so much easier and we have this value, but at the end of the day, they still own this. And we still have to get that culture around that hiring manager. Understand you still own the filling this position. I'm gonna help you and there's all kinds of ways I can help you. But at the end of the day, the best cultures are when the hiring managers own talent on the team.

Nicole Belyna: Agree. Agree. So we've talked a lot about creative ways to expand your recruiting strategy. We've touched on networking. We've talked about social media, but I wanna switch gears for a minute. Even with all the right tools and intentions, there are still some uncomfortable questions about the process of recruiting. How much of hiring still comes down to who you know, rather than who's qualified.

Tim Sackett: It's always been that way. There's never been a time in the world when it wasn't about that. The only, I always think that actually the worst hires we make are when we don't know somebody, right? Because we then, we haven't done our job enough to know the talent that's in the marketplace, and so we're not fighting against something that isn't right or wrong. It's something that's always happened.

If you like Nicole, you're gonna hire somebody and you're thinking, oh my gosh, I needed someone that's an expert in TA. In your mind, you have a Rolodex of people that you're gonna go through. Now, it doesn't mean they're the best. And maybe potentially through that recruiting process, you're gonna uncover some other people you don't know who are great. But at the end of the day, it's a sad fact that's why we network. That's why networks are valuable. That's why you go on LinkedIn. That's why you reach out.

Nicole Belyna: One of the smartest year end moves, investing in yourself. Use those remaining dollars to join your HR community at SHRM twenty-six. Learn more at SHRM dot org slash SHRM twenty-six.

Tim Sackett: You know, the saddest part I have is when someone loses a job and the first thing they do is reach out to me like, Hey, I lost my job. I haven't heard from him in three years. And he like, Hey, that's sad. That's awful. So tell me what you've been doing. Like, why haven't you kept up with me? Why haven't we continued this relationship? And maybe before you even lost your job, I would've probably offered you a different job or found you a job, or whatever that might be, because we've kind of maintained this network.

And that's hard for people to understand, well, I already have a job, so why do I have to maintain this professional network? Well, in today's world. You don't know how long that job's gonna last, right? And so you should always be maintaining this professional network. Also, my professional network helps me solve all of my business problems already, right? So I can reach out to Nicole and say, Hey, I have this question. Can you help me? And immediately I know I'm gonna get a response, whereas. If I never talked to you or never reached out to you and we never had conversation, you'd be like, ah, what, who is this? Why are you reaching out to me? Like, it makes no sense.

It is an uncomfortable truth about recruiting, is that people that we tend to know get hired faster, just reality.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Well, I mean, it makes sense. You know, you're closer to the process, to the decision maker, and you're right. Building a network is, it is a lot of work, I guess. I mean, it's also a joy, you know, to me I see it as a joy, a pleasure to keep up with my network and, you're right, it is if you've got a great network that they can be a support to you, not just when you're job seeking, but some very bizarre questions that come up and it's like, Hey, I know this person.

I allot for networking time for lack of a better description every week just to keep up. And it's not, I mean, I guess it's to my benefit, but it's also, there's also a curiosity to it. Like I truly wanna know, you know what you're doing, Tim, you know what, you're probably gonna give me some, tell me some very funny story and give me something and I'll probably learn something too. Right? There's certainly a benefit to keeping up with a network. Before you actually need to tap into your network, I guess is the best way to describe it.

Tim Sackett: I think it's difficult because I think there's obviously people in the world that aren't great at networking or don't have, maybe they don't believe they have the most robust network. Whatever that might be. I think we all have the ability to network. It's, if you really are attuned to that or wanna do that. Right.

Like I literally, I have somebody on my team right now that I literally was a barista at a coffee shop that I walked into and I was like, oh. This woman's amazing. Like the energy was so positive and it's, you know, so I'd go back day after day, week after week, and eventually it was like, Hey, I have a position. Like we need to talk. Right? And so you have to, you have to be in the mindset of talent can always be in front of you, or potentially the next person I wanna work with might be in front of me.

And so how am I interacting with that person? Is it somebody at a grocery store? Is it somebody that's a waiter or a wait staff at a restaurant or, or, you know. Somebody at a hotel, whatever, you run into people constantly, that you have the ability to network. And we make the decision purposely if we want to or not. And I think the people who are best networkers constantly have a different mindset about, I wanna make sure I connect with as many people as possible.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. So I mean, we often hear networking is key. I mean, you and I have both said it in a few different ways in the last, you know, over the past twenty minutes. Right. But does that inherently favor extroverts?

Tim Sackett: It could. I mean, I think extroverts in an interview process tend to, depending on who they're interviewing with, tend to come across very well. I think as HR professionals, how you combat that potential kind of bias. Is making sure that you don't necessarily have just extroverts interviewing as well. Right? You want introverts that are interviewing you wanna kind of have, and we talk about this in panels all the time, you wanna have an inclusive panel across, right?

If I'm interviewing three females and one male, inherently I'm gonna connect with that male probably quicker than I am with a female. So if I really want to be inclusive, I wanna make sure I have a female on my panel with me. Because that person's gonna then also probably connect with the females faster, and then we can have really good dialogue about who we think is the best.

And so we tend to kind of forget those kinds of things. We just kind of go, oh, well all you know this, that person was extroverted and oh my gosh, all this energy, and I'm so excited. And you're like, yeah, but did you really listen to the answer? Right? These two people were introverted, but maybe their experience and their answers were so much more well crafted and better. They just came across as a different kind of energy, and so, but again, if I'm only extroverted and I'm attracted to extroverts. I'm always gonna hire the extrovert. So again, I need to make sure I'm crafting that interview process in a way that make sure that everybody has a fair shot.

Nicole Belyna: That's exactly right. And I mean, that's the benefit of having a diverse panel of interviewers. And I mean, that could be, and you're right, you know, balancing out personality types, people across the organization, right. Different stakeholders that this person will. Theoretically work with, when you get those different, you can kind of see the dynamic If you have somebody that you're interviewing who's an introvert or they seem to be, you know, just to see how that dynamic is and then, and see how it goes. But, you know, you're at least giving kind of a well-rounded interview experience for those candidates.

So. After addressing some of these harder questions in recruiting, it's worth turning to a more strategic opportunity. And so, I think I know your answer to this question, but should HR leaders rethink traditional KPIs like time to hire or apply a different lens to measure ROI and recruiting strategies? We could do a whole separate...

Tim Sackett: We could do an entire separate, a whole series podcast on this. Yeah. I think on my tombstone is gonna say, time to hire should be abolished, right? Yeah. Or something to that effect. I always go back to the, it's the correlation, causation thing. And the best one is the shark attacks and ice cream. Right? They correlate perfectly. In the summer when ice cream sales go up, shark attacks go up. Well, is that because of ice cream sales? If we just stopped selling ice cream, we no longer have shark attacks. Well, no, because it's warmer, right? So there's no causation between those.

Same with time to fill. You can argue that, hey, because you're faster, you're better. I could also equally argue that if you slow down, you actually might be a little bit better at recruiting. And so there, so just because we're measuring speed. It doesn't mean anything. Now, why do we do that? Why did ninety-nine % of companies measure time to fill? And it's simply because it's clean data. And so we go, oh gosh, I know when a job opened. I know when a job closed. Bing, that must be better.

It's a health metric at best, right? Like if, you know, the average position is thirty-seven days to fill. You're at eighty-five, okay, you're sick. Like, here's a problem, we need to help you. But if you're at thirty-eight or you're at thirty-six, you're no better or worse, you're in the ballpark, you're fine. Move, move along. Move on to more important things because the time is not the important thing.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Right. And I agree with that. I think, you know, there's a lot of. Metrics or health metrics as you refer to just time to hire that are pretty useless, in my opinion, as a standalone metric. But you know, for me, I like to kind of put them together. Right. To your point, if your average time to fill is thirty-seven days. Well, you know, that's, it's different if you're hiring, I don't know, a graphic designer versus an SVP of product development, right? I mean, if you're hiring a product, an executive in less than thirty days, I, you know, I would question. Maybe the quality of your hire. Right?

Tim Sackett: Well, even just taking that broadly across an organization, let's say, I mean let's say you hired twenty-five different roles throughout the year and you're just averaging average time to fill for all twenty-five roles. Well, that's kind of meaningless. But if you had a bunch of roles that were kind of low skill, no skill, high applicant flow that you can fill in ten to twelve days and you have some executive ones that take one hundred twenty days, now you're looking more, you're being more strategic around. Hey, do we need to be better here or here? Like what are the ones that we really care? But if you just take a look organizationally. And go, oh my gosh, we're thirty-seven. Like, it's meaningless. It really means nothing.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, exactly Right. Yep. And so at an age where culture fit and purpose-driven work are top priorities, how can organizations fine tune their messaging to resonate with candidates who are seeking more than just salary and benefits? And we kind of touched on this earlier when we were talking about small businesses recruiting.

Tim Sackett: I love the question because we are getting back to. A point where culture fit actually matters a little bit. I mean, we could argue that it always has mattered, but we also got into this segment of where it was all about skills. So I always ask a question when I interview for my own company. It's one of the last things I'll ask a candidate, which is, can you, in a sentence or two, can you tell me what our culture is? And if they can't tell me that we've failed them in the interview process? Yeah.

And again, everyone's gonna kind of verbalize that their own way. But there's certain things that cultural, I think artifacts and components that through the interview process, we wanna make sure, are you definitely aware this is who we are. Does your crazy match our crazy, we're not completely same people here and we wanna make sure that when you come here we don't surprise you that we might be a little different. Right? And so if we can't portray that, or if anybody can't portray that in the interview process, you failed them.

There should no be, there shouldn't be anybody that at ninety days we go, man, they're just not a culture fit. No, they should. Now again, they might say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they lie to you across the entire time. You are gonna have some of those false positives, but for the most part, if you keep having these cultural fit issues, you are not portraying your culture hard enough within the interview process.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, and I imagine it really does start. Even before the interview process. Yes. You know, with an organization screening, right? For branding. Yeah. And an organization really understanding their culture. You know, there's been, I've had friends, family members say, I went through an interview process and a red flag to me was, you know, each part of the process. Somebody described the culture in a very different way, you know, or it was. Contradictory. Right. And so everybody, well, yes. You know, my journey in an organization is gonna look a little different from yours, but there are gonna be some similarities that are, you know, that kind of tell a story and they all kind of weave together. But then I do think that there, you can see some red flags when you're interviewing as a candidate and some of the stories just aren't matching up.

Tim Sackett: That's a great point.

Nicole Belyna: Perfect. Well, what advice would you give HR professionals trying to make recruiting more proactive and not reactive? And this is a big question, you know, based on how we started this conversation.

Tim Sackett: Yeah. Every company I've ever gone to and run TA, the one thing I tried to do immediately. Consistently until it either happened or it didn't happen, was create this culture of recruiting across the organization. We are always looking for great talent, and no matter who you are, if you bring somebody and say, Hey, this is a noticeably better talent person. Now, a couple of things you have to do. One is you have to define what does that mean? What does noticeably better talent mean to us as an organization? And then when you bring somebody, one hundred % they're gonna be interviewed. We're gonna talk to them because we're always looking for noticeably better people.

Once you start that flywheel effect of getting people to understand, you can always bring talent, we're always looking for talent. And then the other side of that is the one piece that we talked about is that my hiring managers have to own the talent on their team. You're gonna be responsible for filling these jobs. I'm gonna help you, we'll show you how you can do those two cultural things. You shift your entire organization, focus around really increasing the talent of the organization. Once you get there, you can do anything, you can have a lot of fun. The job becomes really fun.

I know most HR people, the audience that's in HR listening to this goes, I hate recruiting Tim. You know, most HR people hate recruiting. I get it. It's really hard. But if you get the organization to view talent in a different way where everybody owns talent, everybody's job for everybody to bring talent in that job can actually be a lot of fun.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I, you know, it. When I join a new organization, I do something similar and really try to, you know, figure out how I can get the organization to love or at least not hate recruiting, right? Yeah. Make it less painful, whatever, however that may be. However, we can help them solve their woes and help them understand that, you know, yes, we are experts in what we do, but also we need your expertise. To help us with the process.

Tim Sackett: Nicole, let me share one last thing about this that I think is really important for us as HR people and leaders is I never allow a hiring manager to make a hiring decision on their own where they're gonna take blame later on for a bad one. We're all gonna make false positive decisions, and I'm gonna be the first person to stand up there and say, no, no, no. Nicole and I made this decision together. We both missed, sorry. Because what happens is your hiring managers immediately go, oh, I'm not in. I'm not here by myself. We have so many that are afraid to make a decision because they know the history is they're gonna get beat up if it's a wrong decision, and I'm just not gonna allow that to happen.

Nicole Belyna: That's actually a really, really good point. If you can help hiring managers hire confidently, then you've really got, you got something for sure. Yep. Great. Good point. All right, Tim, well thank you for sharing your insights with us.

Tim Sackett: Thanks for having me.

Nicole Belyna: So that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Honest HR and we will catch you next time.

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