More Than a “Situationship”: How People Managers and HR Can Work Better Together

This transcript has been generated by AI and may contain slight discrepancies from the audio or video recording.

Anne Sparaco: Hey, it's your favorite co-worker, Anne, and this is the All Things Work podcast. And I'm Nichol Belyna, host of Honest HR and Director of Talent at SHRM, where we turn the real issues facing today's HR departments into honest conversations with actionable insights. Today's episode is a special one.

We're bringing our two podcasts together for a crossover conversation, and this topic is a natural fit for both shows. We're talking about how people managers in HR can stop working in silos and start partnering to build stronger teams.

Whether you're managing a team or leading a talent strategy, you're working toward the same goal. You want to help people succeed and make sure your organization has the skills it needs, both today and down the road.

Nicole Belyna: But those two sides don't always connect the way they should. So Anne, set the scene for us.

Anne Sparaco: Sure, Nichol. Let's say someone on your team quits tomorrow. Deadlines pile up, everyone's stretched thin, and you just need someone in that role as soon as possible.

As a people manager, your first move might be to write a job description, submit the request to open the role, and then ask HR to start collecting resumes.

Nicole Belyna: Meanwhile, HR is thinking about hiring, talent development, performance, and the organization's long-term needs. When the relationship stays mostly transactional, employers can end up hiring for skills they could have developed internally, and employees miss real opportunities to grow.

Anne Sparaco: And the consequences go beyond just a bad hire. Teams can struggle with the same skill gaps year after year, employees can feel stuck in their careers, and people managers can miss the chance to build stronger, more capable teams.

Nicole Belyna: So what changes when people managers and HR stop treating each other as the department they call to fill a position, and start treating each other more as a strategic partner in building their teams? That's exactly what we're digging into today. We'll jump right into it after this.

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Nicole Belyna: SHRM.org/atw-blueprint. We'll see you there.

Anne Sparaco: Okay, before we jump in, I want to share why I wanted Nichol as my partner for this conversation. Beyond hosting Honest HR, Nichol is the Director of Talent at SHRM, where she leads the organization's entire talent strategy.

She has more than 15 years of experience building talent strategies that help people grow once they get through the door, and she has seen firsthand how hiring decisions and employee development connect, and what happens when those conversations take place separately. She also manages a team of her own, so she knows both sides of this partnership.

So Nichol, welcome to All Things Work.

Nicole Belyna: Thanks for having me, Anne.

Anne Sparaco: And as you would say on Honest HR — let's get honest, right?

Nicole Belyna: That's right.

Anne Sparaco: Okay, so let's start with how people managers and HR interact on a regular basis. The relationship can sometimes function more like a transaction. A role opens up, a post gets submitted, resumes start flowing in, and then you just keep on going.

So from where you sit, why does that model persist? And what's the cost of treating each other like departments or functions, rather than a relationship to develop?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. I think you said the key word, which is routine. At work we tend to get into routines, and some routines benefit us and others don't. People is an area where you don't want to put yourself on autopilot.

Yes, there are some good people leadership behaviors that are important to repeat, such as regular one-on-ones and things like that. But when it comes to some other decisions about your people, you don't want to put yourself on autopilot.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: Organizations just by nature tend to look to HR for transactional work, but we can actually be really great advisors to you, if you allow us to do so.

Anne Sparaco: You have to let that in. Just like any relationship — you have to absorb each other a little bit and create that foundation of trust.

Nicole Belyna: That's right.

Anne Sparaco: So you have a unique position here at SHRM as the Director of Talent. You're on the HR side, but you're also a people manager. You see it from both sides. What do you think are some of the leading causes of this disconnect when people fall into that routine between HR and people managers?

Nicole Belyna: Sometimes people get very caught up in their work — like, I have to get this done, I have to get that done. And there are some people managers where the leadership aspect of their role, the coaching aspect, is a bit of an afterthought. That's a behavior you have to develop over time, and sometimes it's reactionary.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: They look to HR after something's gone wrong. We tend to be seen as fixers.

But I think there's also an opportunity for HR professionals to help organizations look at them differently.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: You talked about building trust — and that's really important. If you're an HR person and you're new to your organization, or maybe you've always been known as the go-to person for something transactional, like updating tax forms, you have to do a little self-promotion.

Get out there, schedule some time with people managers and other stakeholders across the organization, and let them know you're there to help — whether that's coaching an employee, or supporting a growing people leader. Promoting yourself as someone who can be there before things get complicated is very helpful.

Anne Sparaco: You have to be intentional. Block time on your calendar, because it can get busy. Being intentional is a big part of this formula.

Nicole Belyna: Absolutely. People leadership is not for the faint of heart, and I think you have to really want to do it.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: I always picture myself as a people leader first and a business leader first who happens to work in HR. I make a lot of decisions around what's best for my team, what's best for the organization, and then ultimately I'm here to provide HR solutions.

You're right — you do have to be very intentional. It's not just about wanting to be a people manager because you want to make more money. You'll never be compensated enough for the care that you have to put into being a quality people leader.

Anne Sparaco: Yeah, you have to genuinely want to care.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. And you talk to a lot of people about workplace issues — from those conversations, why do you think the relationship between people managers and HR deserves more attention?

Anne Sparaco: I work a lot with people who are particularly on the recruiting side. The one thing they've really drilled down to is that relationship development point — having that conversation, getting out of your own routine. That was a consistent theme I kept hearing, and I really wanted to dive deeper into what we can do to address this disconnect so we can see it impact the rest of the organization, beyond just recruiting.

The recruiting example is just one illustration of that relationship dynamic that impacts the team, the organization, and the culture. Because I don't think most organizations actually see this disconnect all at once — it appears piece by piece. It's subtle sometimes. You don't see it right away.

So let's name the damage here. When managers and HR work in silos and the disconnect starts to show up in everyday routines, what are some of the biggest issues that can arise?

Nicole Belyna: Issues that go unaddressed. Something that starts out really small can snowball because it doesn't get addressed. Making a bad hire is another one — from a recruiting standpoint, the list goes on. The more that HR professionals know about the businesses they're supporting, the better.

If I understand your business objectives, if I understand your team beyond just the position I'm recruiting for, I can be a much more proactive resource for you.

Anne Sparaco: You mentioned mismatched hires. Would you say skill gaps become an issue because of these disconnects? How would that come about?

Nicole Belyna: That's a really good point. Skill gaps are always a hot topic, but they're becoming an even bigger priority for HR teams and leaders because, as technology evolves and we add more AI tools to the workplace, we have to figure out ways for our employees to adapt.

You don't want to go to market looking for skill sets because you haven't trained your people to keep up with your own technology. That's another way HR teams can help leaders make sure employees are keeping up with the skills that matter — and keep them employed.

Anne Sparaco: Especially if you're learning to be a people manager for the first time. You might have a good foundation, but you're still learning. I feel like you can really turn to HR and ask how you can keep growing yourself so you can then help your team. Are there ways that can be done?

Nicole Belyna: Absolutely, and that's a great question. Sometimes people think, "Now I'm a people manager — I have to know everything." And you absolutely don't, and you never will.

It's even more important to continue learning and growing as a people manager because you have employees who look to you for guidance, leadership, and mentorship. Developing your own leadership capabilities should be a real priority.

HR departments can certainly offer a wide variety of leadership development opportunities — whether it's access to coaching, a 360-degree feedback assessment to understand the pulse of your team, and much more. There's a variety of resources that HR can provide access to.

Anne Sparaco: When done right, HR can be the mentor for everybody in the organization. Of course, we want to support HR in return — they can't be a resource for everyone all the time.

Nicole Belyna: Right, and that's a really good point. We can enable people across the organization, but we can't be everywhere all the time. The best HR teams are going to make you a confident and competent leader, and help you develop yourself and your team to make the right decisions and drive business results.

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Anne Sparaco: SHRM.

Nicole Belyna: All right, Anne, let's walk through a scenario together.

Anne Sparaco: I love it.

Nicole Belyna: Let's say we've got a senior position open on your team of ten people. You are the people manager. You submit the requisition that week, you write the job description based on the last person's title, and HR immediately starts sourcing for that role externally.

The people manager is focused on replacing the person and covering work immediately, while HR is focused on filling an open role. That sounds like a normal process, right? What if I said something actually went wrong here?

Anne Sparaco: I love it. So the people manager is focused on just filling that role — I don't blame them, because they probably have a lot on their plate and HR wants to support them. But the problem is going back to that routine. What went wrong is there wasn't a conversation about how this role could be reimagined. Is that something you would say is what happened?

Nicole Belyna: I think that's really important. When somebody leaves your team, you have to look at the bigger picture and say, "This is what this person was doing, this is what they contributed to the team" — but also look at the team in general.

What's changed since we hired this role? Are our priorities the same? Do we need the same skill set? Rather than simply replacing the same person, thinking about the big picture is really important.

That's where your HR leader can help guide you through that thought process. As talent advisors, we should be challenging you and asking the right questions so that you think about your business in a different way, if needed. Are there skill gaps that need to be addressed? Is there talent on the team where you can shift things around?

Having a good series of questions to ask before opening the role is really important.

Anne Sparaco: And in that healthy version, when it comes to making that final call — who is responsible? I know it's a dual relationship, but who makes that final decision on where to take this?

Nicole Belyna: Ultimately, it's going to be the people manager. We can advise you and help guide you through the process. But by nature, if you sent me a message saying someone left your team and you'd like to replace them, I would immediately ask you several different questions. I'd want to schedule time with you and have what we call a recruitment strategy meeting — to understand not just the role, but the bigger picture.

Anne Sparaco: Being intentional, taking that 30 minutes on the calendar — it could really change the trajectory of what happens with that team and that role.

Nicole Belyna: Absolutely. And ultimately, it may be the right decision to backfill the role exactly as it was — but at least we've gone through those questions together.

Anne Sparaco: Right. And if you realize it wasn't the best direction, you did it together, and you can pivot next time.

I want to look at this from the employee perspective now. Imagine you're the one doing really great work, you want to advance your career, and there's a senior role that opens up on your team. You're eyeing it — you're getting ready for that opportunity. But nobody's really talked to you about your career goals. Maybe it came up once during a busy time. Your manager hasn't had the opportunity to identify those development opportunities, and the organization ultimately hires someone externally.

This can really impact an employee's motivation, their trust in their manager, and ultimately their decision to stay with the company. So what responsibility does the people manager have to understand an employee's career goals, and where does HR come into that process?

Nicole Belyna: It's a fair amount of responsibility. Ultimately, your career is your responsibility. But as a people manager, it is your responsibility to be a coach to your employees — and that means having career conversations with them.

Does it mean every day? No. But you should have a meaningful career conversation with your employees at least once, if not twice a year, to understand what their goals are and whether those goals align with where the organization is going.

You may have someone on your team whose ultimate goal is something your organization simply cannot offer — in which case, it's a people manager's responsibility to manage those expectations.

But for the sake of our conversation, let's assume there are realistic opportunities for this person. As a people manager, you have to have those formal conversations to understand where they want to go — but also those informal, in-the-moment conversations. It's those small moments that are critical: acknowledging great work, or giving a small piece of feedback to help them improve.

Not sending somebody down the wrong path is also really important. We don't always know what's going to happen in six months. Managing expectations matters.

Anne Sparaco: I agree.

Nicole Belyna: But making sure that as a people manager you're aligned — that you understand their goals, that the two of you are on the same page, that you have a good view of the organization — and then looping in your HR person to say, "My employee has these goals. Can you help me understand what's available?" It might be professional development, coaching, or a leadership development program. There's a wide variety of solutions HR can help you access.

Anne Sparaco: And an external hire doesn't always mean something went wrong. It just means it might not have been the right role for that person, even if they thought they wanted it. I've been in a position where a role opened up and I thought about it, and my manager said, "I don't think that's actually what you want — because I know this role and what it requires, and I don't think you'd be happy."

It was such an uplifting conversation. I was so glad they really thought about what I would want, not just what I could do. And I said, "You know what, you're right." A promotion doesn't always mean it's great for you.

Nicole Belyna: Exactly. A little pulse check goes a long way. Timing is also a factor — someone may have a goal of getting to a certain role, but perhaps the timing just isn't right. And even if they're not ready today, giving them exposure to stretch opportunities, professional development, and keeping them engaged is really important.

Anne Sparaco: Exactly. So we got honest — now I want to get practical.

I want people managers and HR professionals to finish this episode with things they can do this week to start developing this stronger relationship and ultimately achieve better outcomes.

I want to refer back to another All Things Work episode we had called The Unicorn Dilemma, where our guest mentioned how often people managers run to HR and say, "I want the best-of-the-best candidate — I want them to do X, Y, Z and be perfect." The Unicorn Dilemma says it all. She explained how that's a big failure point in the relationship between HR and people managers, and she pinned down why it's important for HR to go back to the hiring manager and have a realistic discussion on expectations before posting the role.

So what does that realistic conversation between HR and the people manager sound like? And in your role in HR, who would you like to see initiating that conversation?

Nicole Belyna: It would be great if the people manager came to HR to initiate that discussion. And we've talked a lot about managing expectations — that's really an underlying theme of this episode.

If the people manager comes to HR, they know that finding a unicorn may not be realistic. As an HR professional, we want to help people managers find what they're looking for, but it comes back to asking the right questions. Probing — why do you need this unicorn? Usually when people managers are asking for very difficult talent to find, it's to compensate for something that's missing. We just need to understand what that is.

Anne Sparaco: It's like, "Jeff, I have a horse. I don't have a unicorn. Come on."

Nicole Belyna: Right. Of course we all think we're unicorns too, so there's that. But asking a lot of good questions — help me understand what's going on in your organization, why do you need this talent, is there someone within the organization who could do the work, and if not, why?

And do you think this person actually exists somewhere else? Because sometimes they don't. We have to think of another plan.

Anne Sparaco: That's a really good point — it can surface other issues you hadn't pinpointed before. Like, why isn't there an internal candidate? Is there a gap in upskilling or reskilling? Have you seen that often over the course of your career?

Nicole Belyna: Sometimes. If an organization has implemented new technology and nobody knows how to use it, there's a mad dash to find someone. But every other organization is looking for that same person.

Or if business priorities change and you're looking for someone with expertise in a very niche area, that's another one. This makes the case for HR really understanding the bigger picture — the business priorities overall, and the market. When someone comes to you with that question, you can manage their expectations by saying, "Hey, yeah, you and everybody else is looking for this skill set."

Anne Sparaco: Oh my gosh. You're giving me a window into just a snippet of the work you do every day.

So the major takeaways: be intentional about the work, you don't have to have all the answers, you just have to care enough — and that's okay. Start the conversation. Take 30 minutes, and you'll see that shift.

Nichol, thank you so much. I really loved this conversation. I loved getting a window into the work you do every day and how you work with people managers to develop quality relationships. I hope our audience walks away ready to build a stronger relationship starting tomorrow.

Nicole Belyna: It's always a pleasure to spend time with you, Anne. Thank you for having me. I loved this crossover episode.

Anne Sparaco: All right, that's all for this week. We'll catch you next time. If you enjoyed our conversation today, be sure to subscribe wherever you enjoy your podcasts so you never miss a new episode.

Also, did you know All Things Work is more than a podcast? We're also a weekly newsletter that includes in-depth articles and the latest research from SHRM to keep you in the know. Just head to SHRM.org/allthingswork to sign up. Plus, follow SHRM on social media to view the latest clips and join the conversation on game-changing topics that are redefining the world of work.