Why HR and People Managers Need to Work Better Together

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Anne Sparaco: Hey, it's your favorite coworker, Anne, and this is the All Things Work podcast.

Nicole Belyna: And I'm Nicole Belyna, host of Honest HR and director of talent at SHRM, where we turn the real issues facing today's HR departments into honest conversations with actionable insights.

Anne Sparaco: And today's episode is a special one. We're bringing our two podcasts together for a crossover conversation. And this topic is a natural fit for both shows. We're talking about how people managers in HR can stop working in silos and start partnering to build stronger teams.

Nicole Belyna: Yes, 'cause whether you're managing a team or leading a talent strategy, you're working toward the same goal. You want to help people succeed and make sure your organization has the skills it needs, both today and down the road. But those two sides don't always connect the way they should. Mm-hmm. So Anne, set the scene for us.

Anne Sparaco:  Sure, Nicole. Let's say someone on your team quits tomorrow. Deadlines pile up, everyone's stretched thin, and you just need someone in that role ASAP. As a people manager, your first move might be to write a job description, submit the request to open the role, and then ask HR to start collecting those resumes.

Nicole Belyna: Meanwhile, HR is thinking about hiring, talent development- Mm-hmm ... performance, and the organization's long-term needs. When the relationship stays mostly transactional, employers can end up hiring for skills they could've developed internally, and employees miss real opportunities to grow.

Anne Sparaco: And the consequences go beyond just a bad hire. Teams can struggle with the same skill gaps year after year, employees can feel stuck in their careers, and people managers can miss the chance to build stronger, more capable teams.

Nicole Belyna: So what changes when people managers and HR stop treating each other as the department they call to fill a position, and start treating each other more as a strategic partner in building their teams? That's exactly what we're digging into today. We'll jump right into it after this.

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Anne Sparaco: Okay, before we jump in, I want to share why I wanted Nicole as my partner for this conversation. Beyond hosting Honest HR, Nicole is the director of talent at SHRM, where she leads the organization's entire talent strategy. She has more than 15 years of experience building talent strategies that help people grow once they get through the door, and she has seen first-hand how hiring decisions and employee development connect, and what happens when those conversations take place separately. She also manages a team of her own, so she knows both sides of this partnership. So Nicole, welcome to All Things Work.

Nicole Belyna: Thanks for having me, Anne.

Anne Sparaco: And as you would say on Honest HR- Oh ... let's get honest, right? That's right, that's right. Okay, so let's start with how people managers and HR interact on a regular basis. The relationship can sometimes function more like a transaction. A role opens up, a post gets submitted, and then resumes start flowing in, and then you just keep on going. So from where you're s- where you sit, w- why does that model persist, that routine? And what's the cost of treating each other, like the departments, the, the roles, like a transaction or a function like that, rather than a relationship to develop?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Well, I think you said the key word, which is routine. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, we, at work we like to get into routines, or we tend to get into routines, and some routines benefit us and others don't. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I think people is an area where you don't wanna put yourself on autopilot, you know, and not necessarily on repeat. Yes, there are some good people leadership behaviors that are important to repeat, such as, you know, regular one-on-ones- Mm-hmm and, um, and, and things like that. But when it comes to some other dec- um, decisions about- Your people, you don't wanna necessarily put yourself on autopilot. Right. And so, you know, uh, oftentimes, I mean, I think organizations just by nature tend to look to HR for, like, transactional work. But we can actually be really great advisors to you- Mm-hmm if you, if you allow us to do so.

Anne Sparaco: You gotta let that in.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah.

Anne Sparaco: Well, just like any relationship. Right. You just gotta, you just gotta absorb each other a little bit and trust, create that trust, that foundation of trust.

Nicole Belyna: That's right.

Anne Sparaco: So you have a unique position here at Sherm as the director of talent, so you're on the HR side, but you're also a people manager. Right. So you, you really got the best of both worlds here, where you see it from both sides. What do you think are some of the leading causes of this disconnect you see, um, when people fall into that routine, uh, between HR and people managers?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. Sometimes, um, you know, people get very caught up in their work-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm

Nicole Belyna: right? Like, I have to get this done, I have to, you know, I have to get that done. And there are some people managers where the leadership aspect of their role, the coaching aspect of their role, is a little bit of an afterthought. Mm-hmm. And that's a behavior that, you know, you've gotta develop, and over time- And, um, and sometimes it's kind of reactionary.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: And, uh, you know, they, they look to HR, like, after something's gone wrong. But I mean, I-

Anne Sparaco: Don't, don't a lot of people.

Nicole Belyna: Exa- yeah, exactly. Um, you know, we're sort of like, they tend to look at us like, like fixers.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: But, you know, I think there's also an opportunity for HR professionals to help, uh, organizations look at them differently too.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: So you talked about building trust, and that's something that I think is really important. So, you know, if you're an HR person, you're new to your organization, or maybe you've always been known as, like, the go-to person for, like, something transactional, like, you know-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: a payroll, right? Mm-hmm. Like, "Oh, I've gotta update my tax forms. Let me go to this person."

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: But, you know, if you're an HR business partner, you know, s- you've got to do a little self-promotion. Mm-hmm. Get out there, schedule some time with people managers and, um, other stakeholders across the organization, and kind of let them know, like, "Hey, I'm here for you if you need help-" Mm-hmm coaching an employee- Mm-hmm ... if you yourself need more coaching- Yeah ... as a growing people leader, things like that. And so, you know, uh, I think promoting yourself a little bit to understand, like, "Hey, I'm not just here after the fact. I can be here before things get a little wild," can also be very, very helpful.

Anne Sparaco: I feel like you have to be intentional. Like you said, mark time on your calendar, 'cause it can get busy, right? Yeah, yeah. So being intentional, I think, is a big part of this formula, right?

Nicole Belyna: A- 100%.

Anne Sparaco: Mm.

Nicole Belyna: You know, people leadership is not for the weak at heart, and I think you have to really want to do it.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: You know? Um, I mean, I, I always picture myself as, you know, a people leader first and a business leader first who happens to, to work in, in HR.

Anne Sparaco: I love it.

Nicole Belyna: You know? And, um, I mean, I- Make a lot of decisions around what's best for my team- Mm-hmm ... what's best for the organization, and then ultimately, I'm here to, you know, provide HR solutions. And so you're right, you do have to be very intentional. You know, it's not just about like, "Oh, I wanna be a people manager because I wanna make more money."

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: You'll never make enough money- No. ... for, you know, for the care that you have to put into being a good people leader.

Anne Sparaco: Yeah, you have to, you have to want to care- Yeah for sure.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. And you talk to a lot of, um, people about workplace issues, and from those conversations, why do you think the relationship between people managers and, and HR deserves more attention?

Anne Sparaco: Ooh, honest HR-esque in all things work. Yeah. I love this. Um, so I, I work a lot with, um, people who are particularly on the recruiting side. I've had a couple conversations with them, and the one thing they've really drilled down to is that relationship development point, having that conversation, kind of getting out of your own, as you would say, routine- Right ... that we mentioned. I think that was just a, a theme and, and a reoccurrence I was hearing in my conversations, and I really wanted to dive deeper, like what can we really do to address this disconnect so we can see it impact the rest of the organization, beyond just recruiting. Mm-hmm. The recruiting part that we provided is just an example of that relationship part that impacts the team and impacts the organization, and then the culture, and so on and so forth, which we will dive right into. That's right. That's right. Because I do wanna dive in a little deeper, because I don't think most of organizations actually see this disconnect all at once. It's like appearing piece by piece. Sure. It's kind of subtle sometimes. You don't really see it right away. So let's name the damage here. When managers in HR work in silos and the disconnect starts to show up- Yeah ... in the little everyday routines, um, what are some of the biggest issues that can really arise, some that we just hinted to?

Nicole Belyna: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I mean, obviously i- issues that, that don't go... that go unaddressed, right? Mm-hmm. So something that can be, starts out really small- Yeah ... um, kind of snowballs- Mm-hmm ... because it doesn't get addressed, and it doesn't get addressed.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: Um, you know, potentially making a bad hire, right? Mm-hmm. That was another you had hinted towards, like, you know, from a recruiting standpoint. Um, I mean, the list kind of, kind of goes on. And, um, you know, uh, the, the more that HR professionals know about the businesses they're supporting, the better. Mm-hmm. You know, if I understand your business objectives, if I understand your team, not beyond just the position I'm recruiting for-

Anne Sparaco: Right

Nicole Belyna: I can be a much better proactive resource for you than- You know, than if I didn't have that information.

Anne Sparaco: Like, you mentioned mismatched hires. Um, would you say, like, skills gaps become an issue because of these disconnects? Like, how would that come about?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, uh, yeah. That's a really good point.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: Um, skills gaps are... I mean, it's always a hot topic, but it's becoming more of a, a, a topic to address with HR teams and, uh- Mm ... and leaders because, you know, as technology evolves, as, you know, we add more and more AI tools to the workplace, um, we have to figure out ways for our employees to adapt. And you don't want to have to go to market looking for skillsets because you've not trained your people to keep up with a, your, your own technology. Exactly. Right? So that's another way where HR teams can help you as a leader- Mm-hmm ... make sure that your employees are keeping up with those, um, you know, with the skills that are important to your organization.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: Um, you know, and keep them employed.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: So, I mean, that's another important aspect, too.

Anne Sparaco: Especially if you're, if you're learning to be a people manager. Let's say it's the first time you're a people manager, and you have maybe a good base, but you're still learning. I feel like you can really turn to HR and ask, you know, how can I keep growing in myself to help then help my team, you know? Yeah. Is, are there ways that that can be done?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's a really great question, which is, um, you know, sometimes people are like, oh, I'm, I'm now a people manager, I have to know everything. No. And you absolutely don't- No ... and you never will. And so I think it's even more important to, uh, to continue learning and growing as you're- Mm-hmm a people manager because, you know, you've got- Employees who look to you for guidance and leadership and mentorship. And so-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: um, you know, developing your own leadership capabilities should be even, even more important. But yeah, I mean, HR departments can certainly, um, offer a wide variety of, of leadership devel- development for you- Mm-hmm and for your team. So, you know, whether it's access to coaching or- Right ... you know, maybe you wanna start with, like, a 360- Mm-hmm ... to kinda understand, um, the pulse of your team, things like that. So there's a variety of different things- Right ... resources that, um, HR can provide access to you.

Anne Sparaco: Yeah.

Nicole Belyna: I feel like, I feel like when done right, HR can be the mentor for everybody in the organization. Yeah.

Anne Sparaco: Of course, we want, we want to support HR in return. Yeah. You know, they can't just be mama and papa bear for everybody.

Nicole Belyna: Right. Well, and that's a really good point, which is we can enable people across the organization, but we can't be everywhere all the time. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, the best HR teams are going to make you a confident and competent leader, uh, and help you develop yourself and develop your team, uh- Love it to make the right decisions and, you know- Mm-hmm ... and drive the business results.

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Nicole Belyna: SHRM. All right, Anne, so we will walk through a scenario together. Okay. I love it. All right, great. Mm-hmm. So let's say we've got a senior position open on your team of 10 people. Mm-hmm. It's a pretty large team.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: Uh, you are the people manager. You, um, submit the requisition that week, you write the job description- Right uh, based on the last person's title, and, you know, immediately HR starts sourcing for that, that role externally. Um, the people manager is focused on replacing the person and covering work immediately-

Anne Sparaco: Right ...

Nicole Belyna: uh, while HR is focused on filling an open role.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: So that sounds like a normal process-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm

Nicole Belyna: right? Yeah. What if I said something actually went wrong here?

Anne Sparaco: Ooh, I love it. It feels like a little bit of a trick question, but Um, so it, it, it makes sense that the, the people manager is really, you know, focused on just trying to fill that role. I mean, I don't blame me as the people manager because they're probably got a lot of work on their plate, and HR is like, "We gotta, we gotta support. We gotta get this through. Let's go, go, go." Uh, the thing, the problem is going back to that routine, we fell into that routine, and I think in this scenario, what went wrong is there wasn't that conversation on- You know, what, what could, how could we possibly reimagine this role? Yeah. Is that something you would say is, um, kinda like what went wrong there? Um, fr- from somebody who's not a people manager and not deep in HR, I would love to hear from you.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the, um, I think that's really important- Mm-hmm ... which is, you know, when somebody leaves your, your team-

Anne Sparaco: Right ...

Nicole Belyna: you have to look at the bigger picture and say, you know, "This is what this person was doing, this is what they contributed to the team," but also, "Let me look at the team in general. What's changed since, you know, maybe since we hired this role? Um, are our priorities the same? Do we s- need the same skill set?" And so, you know, rather than simply replacing the same person-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: thinking about the big picture I think is really important. And again, that's where your HR, uh, leader can help you, kinda guide you through that-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm

Nicole Belyna: uh, thought process. 'Cause you're right, I mean, that's not something that, as a people leader, you should... It just, it should just automatically come to mind. You know, that's where an HR person's expertise can really help kinda make you think a little bit- Mm-hmm ... differently. And, you know, as talent advisors, we should be m- kind of challenging you and, and giving you those good questions- Right so that you, you think about your business in a different way, if needed. Um, you know, are there skills gaps that need to be addressed?

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: Is there, um... You know, maybe you've got some talent on the team- Mm-hmm ... where you can kinda shift things around. Mm-hmm. So, uh, I think having- A good series of questions to ask versus just turning on the, you know, opening up the rec- Mm-hmm is really, really important.

Anne Sparaco: And in that healthy version, when it comes to just making that final call, what to do, where to take the direction of this, uh, you know, job description application, what to, what to do with that process, who is kind of responsible here? 'Cause I know it's kind of like a dual relationship, but who makes that final call on, on what the decision should be?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. I mean, ultimately, it's gonna be the, the people manager.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: Um, you know, we can advise you and- Right ... help guide you through the process. Uh, but, you know, by nature, you know, if you sent me a message and said, "Hey, Nicole, um, you know, so and so's left my team. I'd like to replace them"-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: I would immediately ask you several different questions, right? Like, s- wanna schedule time with you, uh- Mm-hmm ... and have what we call here a recruitment strategy meeting- Love it ... to understand not just the role, but the bigger, the bigger picture-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: you know, using some of the examples I just talked about.

Anne Sparaco: Being intentional, taking that 30 minutes on the calendar, it could really change the trajectory of, you know, what happens with that team, what happens with that role, and how it's developed. So I love that you pointed out- Yeah, yeah ... that, that short call- Exa- ... that doesn't take much.

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, absolutely. So, and as I said, ultimately, it's- Mm-hmm ... you know, it's your decision to, you know, where we land, and it may be that, like, it is the right decision to backfill the role exactly- Mm-hmm ... as it was, but at least we've kind of gone through those questions and-

Anne Sparaco: Right yeah. You address it, and if you, if you realize, okay, that wasn't the best direction, then, then you did it together, and you, then you pivot back to- Yeah ... a different direction next time. Yeah. So I wanna look at this from the employee perspective. We talked a lot about people managers and HR, um, but imagine you're the one doing really great work, and you want to advance your career, and there's a position that, maybe that senior role on the team, it opens up, and you're like, ooh. You're eyeing it, and I know, I know people who have done that, where they're, they're just read- they're getting ready to pounce. They're getting ready for that opportunity to open up. But nobody's really talked to you about your career goals, even if you mentioned it. Maybe it was a busy time. Your manager hasn't had the time to identify those development opportunities, and the organization ultimately hires someone externally from the outside to fill this role, and this experience can really impact an employee's motivation- Mm-hmm the trust in their manager, and ultimately, that decision to stay with the company, 'cause they're envisioning their future, and they're s- they're trying to see opportunity, and if the opportunity's being squashed, they're gonna go, "Mm." Is this meant for me? So what responsibility does the people manager have to understand an employee's career goals, and where does HR come into that process to turn those goals into an actual development plan?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah. I- it's a fair amount of responsibility. And, you know, I, I always say ultimately, you know, your career is your responsibility.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: Right? But also, as a people manager, it is your responsibility to, you know, to be a coach to your, your employees- Mm-hmm ... and, um, that also means having career conversations with them. Does it mean that you're having a career conversation with them every day? No, but you should have a good career conversation with your employees at least w- you know, once, if not twice a year-

Anne Sparaco: Right ...

Nicole Belyna: um, you know, to understand what their goals are-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ... you

Nicole Belyna: know, do their goals align with the or- where the organization is going? You know, you may have somebody on your team who's like, "You know, it is my, my ultimate career goal to be an opera singer." Mm-hmm. Well, if that's not an option in your organization, then perhaps, you know- ... we're going down the wrong path.

Anne Sparaco: Yeah, right.

Nicole Belyna: Um, I think it's also a people manager's responsi- responsibility to manage those expectations. Right. But for the sake of our conversation- ... let's assume that, you know, y- there are realistic opportunities- Mm-hmm ... for this person. Um, and there's a couple of things, which is, uh, as a people manager, it is your responsibility to have those formal conversations, right? To understand- Right ... where they wanna go, but then also have those informal conversations- Mm-hmm those little... It's, uh, to me, it's those moments that are critical where you give them, you know, in-the-moment feedback- Mm-hmm Acknowledging the great work that they've done- Right ... or just giving them, like, a little tweak to say, like, "Hey, um- Mm-hmm ... next time, here's how you could be a little bit better."

Anne Sparaco: Right. Yeah.

Nicole Belyna: Um, you know, I think also, like, not sending somebody down a wrong path is really, really important. Like, oh yeah, you can be-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: you know, you can have this role in six months. Well, y- you know, we don't necessarily always know what's gonna happen in six months. Exactly, yeah. So again, I think managing those expectations is really important.

Anne Sparaco: I think so. Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: Um, but making sure that as a people manager, you're aligned, you know, you understand their goals, that the two of you are aligned, um, that you have a good view of the organization, and you can then, you know, loop in your HR person- Mm-hmm ... to say, like, "Hey, you know, my employee has, uh, you know, th- these goals. Can you help me, you know, understand what's available?" And so it might be professional development. Right. It could be coaching. Mm-hmm. It could be putting them in a leadership development program, you know, who knows? But I mean, there's a wide variety of solutions that your HR person can certainly help you with.

Anne Sparaco: I think so, and, and then an, an external hire doesn't always mean bad. It just means it's, uh, might not be the right role for that person, even if they said they wanted it, that, like you said, managing those expectations. I mean, I've definitely, uh, been in a position where a role's opened up and I've thought about it, and I've had a, I've had a manager say, "You know, I don't think that's what you want." Yeah. Like, 'cause it, it might seem like that on paper, but I know this role.

Nicole Belyna: Right.

Anne Sparaco: I know what they're looking for, and I don't really think you would be happy. Th- here's why I think that. And it was just such an uplifting conversation. I was so happy- Mm-hmm ... that they really thought of me and what I would want, not just what I could do. And I just said, "Wow, I think you're right," and I, I talked more about it, and I said, "Ew, yeah, no, that's, that's actually not really what I'm looking for." Sure. And, uh, you know, just a promotion doesn't always mean great for you, so I- Yeah ... I think that's so great, managing the expectations, getting a real understanding, just getting a coffee with your direct report. Yeah. Can always help, yeah.

Nicole Belyna: Yep. Yep. No, I think it's good to do a little pulse check, and I mean, y- you know, timing is also, uh, a factor, right?

Anne Sparaco: Right,

Nicole Belyna: yeah. Um, so a person may have- Uh, a goal of getting to a certain role, but perhaps the timing just isn't right. Yeah. And so again, it goes back to, to managing expectations. But even if they're not ready today, um, you know, giving them exposure to opportunities-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: whether, you know, stretch opportunities, professional development, and, like, keeping them on a path of engagement, I think is also

Anne Sparaco: important.

Nicole Belyna: Exactly.

Anne Sparaco: So we got honest. Mm. Now I wanna get practical. All right. Okay. So I really want people managers and HR professionals to finish this episode with things they can do this week, um, so they can start to develop this stronger relationship so that they can, you know, eventually have much better outcomes. So I wanna actually refer back to another All Things Work episode we had called The Unicorn Dilemma, where our guest mentioned how often- Mm people managers will, like, run to HR and say, "I want the best of the best candidate. I want them to do X, Y, Z and be perfect, perfect, perfect." Again, the unicorn dilemma says it all. And she explained how that is actually a big failure point in the relationship between HR and people managers, and she pins down why it's important for HR to go back to that hiring manager and have a realistic discussion on expectations of the role and how to communicate that effectively before posting the role, either internally or externally. Mm-hmm. Um, it was such a great episode. I really loved it. So what does that realistic conversation between HR and the people managers sound like? And in your role in HR, who would you like to see initiating that conversation, and just, like, what would be on the agenda?

Nicole Belyna: Right. Um, good question. It's a

Anne Sparaco: big question,

Nicole Belyna: I know. It is a big que- Yeah. There's a lot, lot of

Anne Sparaco: points. I threw a lot at you.

Nicole Belyna: Lot of points there. I, I mean, it would be great if the people manager came to, you know, the H- to HR to say- To initiate that, that discussion.

Anne Sparaco: Right.

Nicole Belyna: Right. Right? Um, you know, I think we- we're talking a lot about managing expectations. I think that's sort of like an underlying theme- It's part of it, yeah in our, in our- Yeah. O- our episode here. Um, but I mean, if the people manager comes to HR, obviously, you know, they know that, like, maybe there isn't that opportunity to find a unicorn.

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: Um, you know, I, I think as an HR professional, we wanna help people managers find what they're looking for. But again, it goes back to asking the right questions. Yeah. You know, kind of probing, "Well, why do you need this unicorn?" Mm-hmm. And, um, because usually, when, when people managers are asking for this very difficult talent to find-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: it's to g- to compensate for something that's missing. Right. And so we just need to understand that.

Anne Sparaco: Yeah.

Nicole Belyna: You know?

Anne Sparaco: It's like, "Jeff, I have a horse. I don't have a unicorn. Come on."

Nicole Belyna: Right. Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah. Um, of course, we all think we're unicorns, um, too, so-

Anne Sparaco: That's true ...

Nicole Belyna: so there's that, but-

Anne Sparaco: We do have some sparkle in us.

Nicole Belyna: That's right. Yeah. But I mean- Yeah ... a- again, I think i- asking a lot of good questions, you know- Yeah ... help me understand what's going on in your organization. Why do you need this talent?

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: Um, is there somebody within the organization who could do the work?

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm.

Nicole Belyna: If not, why?

Anne Sparaco: Right. You

Nicole Belyna: know, and if not- That's a good point ... do you think, you know, why do you think this person actually exists someplace else? Mm. Because sometimes they don't.

Anne Sparaco: Right. Right. You

Nicole Belyna: know? And we've gotta think of another plan.

Anne Sparaco: That does, that, that's a really good point you made, like, how it can bring up maybe some other issues that, that, that you may have not pinpointed before. Uh, you know, why- Why is there someone not internally? Is, is there a problem with maybe a skills up-skilling, re-skilling development plan? Yeah. Um, do you think that that's something that you see often in, in, like... Like, not, not here, but, like, you know what I mean. Yeah. Like, just over the course of your career, have you seen stuff like that?

Nicole Belyna: Yeah, uh, sometimes, right? Right. So, um, if they're... If an organization has implemented new technology-

Anne Sparaco: Mm-hmm

Nicole Belyna: and it's new to everybody in the organization- Sure ... right? Mm-hmm. And nobody... You know, it's like, "Oh, we've invested all of this money on this new- Sure. ... platform, and nobody knows how to use it." Right. So then there's a mad dash trying to find someone. Um, but every other organization's trying to find that person,

Anne Sparaco: right? Gotcha.

Nicole Belyna: Um, so that might be an example. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, if, if business priorities change, and you're looking for someone with expertise in, you know, a very niche area, that could be another one. So, you know, I... To me, this makes a case for, again, um, HR really understanding the bigger picture of their business, right? Mm-hmm. Understanding, like, the business priorities-

Anne Sparaco: Right ...

Nicole Belyna: um, o- overall, and also understanding the market. Yes. You know? So when somebody comes to you and has that question, you can, you can manage their expectations by saying, like, "Hey, yeah, you and everybody else is

Anne Sparaco: looking- Mm-hmm ...

Nicole Belyna: for this skill set," so.

Anne Sparaco: Oh, my gosh. You're giving me a window into just a snippet of the work you do every day. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my gosh, it's a lot. Um, so major takeaways, be intentional about the work. You don't have to have all the answers. You have to care enough, and that's okay. Just start the conversation. Take 30 minutes- Yeah and then you'll see that shift, so all right. That's right. Nicole, thank you so much. I really loved this conversation. I love getting a, a window into the work you do every day and how you're working with our people managers here all the time to develop great relationships. So hopefully the, our audience walks away with a stronger relationship starting tomorrow.

Nicole Belyna: Yes. Well, it's always a pleasure to spend time with you, Anne. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Anne Sparaco: I loved this crossover episode. All right, that's all for this week. We'll catch you next time.

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